To wonder why on earth Troops to Teachers is considered to be a great idea?

[ballinacup]

Before we start, I'm not armed forces bashing, I'm sure there are some troops out there who would make excellent teachers. But why on earth offer a fast track course to troops without a degree?!

It seems like sheer madness, why not offer the fast track course to anyone? Am I missing some glaringly obvious fact that makes it all make sense? Or has Gove got a vision in his head of classrooms running with military precision if he has soldiers at the helm?

Can someone please explain it to me, because I'm genuinely puzzled.

Loving some of the generalisations on this thread

notyummy and CaptainJamesTKirk make some very good points.

Does anyone know is it only ex soldiers who will be eligible?

The Royal Navy (and RAF) also have huge numbers of well educated and skilled individuals with a vast range of qualifications.

From my time in the Sea Cadets and RN Reserves I have met many serving members who were inspirational leaders, highly trained, well educated and who would IMO make very, very good teachers.

I would need to see the detail of the government's scheme before dismissing it out of hand!

It's a better sound bite. Soldiers to teachers. Rather than exforces to teachers.

the Armstrong & Miller "Be a teacher" sketches come to mind.

I would think there will be all sorts of ideas to redeploy "troops".

The armed forces are looking to lose about 20% of their numbers by 2017 aren't they?

Surely Troops to Teachers is a sweetner for the MOD, rather than some great initiative by Gove? Or am I far too cynical?

Pendeen - no the BBC website states

*Former armed forces personnel without degrees will be fast-tracked into teaching in England under a new government programme.

The Troops to Teachers scheme will help "highly skilled" former military personnel become teachers within two years
**8

So it is open to all, but sometimes people have a problem distinguishing and think Armed Forces =Soldiers/Army.

DH is an adult educator and instructor in the RAF for example and would qualify if he wished

'Can I pose a question to the teachers on this page (if any). How much teaching experience does a newly qualified teacher in their first full time job have?'

Usually under a term and a half, split into chunks with increasing responsibility and autonomy. That's for a PGCE and a student with no extras.
Many have been TAs or volunteered in schools.

Why just Troops for Teaching? Seriously, SW and Nursing are running low on people.

A soldier could not discipline a child any better than a teacher because the moment a sanction was put in place then stroppy parents would be up in arms about it!

Remember the Mums Army idea for teaching primary school kids? Think this one will go the same way!!

Good alliteration though Troops for teachers!!

Maybe next step will be Teachers for Troops when they are all displaced by the army!

How is this different to doing a 1 year PGCE? Ok, so the soldier doesn't have a degree but may have several years where they have been learning life skills/travelling instead of doing e.g. an english literature degree.

I would like to know if this has worked elsewhere (other countries) and what the feedback was.

I am fairly sure it is open to all three of the armed forces. The Troops to Teachers name is unfortunate for many reasons. Statistically the RAF and RN have far more degree qualified personnel than the Army. I know very few offices without degrees in the RAF, and in some trades it is unusual to get beyond Sgt without a degree.

DH is an instructor in the Forces and probably the kind of person this scheme is aimed at, he is well trained, highly motivated etc, however it would be approx 10 grand drop in pay to teacher starting salary from his current salary plus no subsidised housing. So it's not really that tempting an offer.

'How is this different to doing a 1 year PGCE? Ok, so the soldier doesn't have a degree but may have several years where they have been learning life skills/travelling instead of doing e.g. an english literature degree.'

Really?
That's enough in your eyes?
OK, but it wouldn't satisfy me.

I fear that there is a tendancy for the Governement and others to go the way of America, and think that the army are made up of gods.
They are not.

There was an awful thread on MN recently of a soldier abusing his wife, and he got let off because he was in the army[may have got facts slightly wrong there]. Appalling.

Well I like Saltire's OH am in the RAF teaching adults in a very complex subject.

I've been trained in instructional techniques and have a number of years teaching experience now. I've had to create lessons and entire courses.

Would this make me a good teacher of children? I don't know and if I'm honest having heard what kids are like in some schools I'm not sure I'd want to be a teacher.

Not having looked into this scheme in any great detail i can't comment on what fast tracking would cut out of the training. What I do know is that myself and others like Saltire's OH have vast amounts of experience dealing with students of all types. Some might think that all this experience should be put to good use rather than letting it go to waste.

Goblin, nursing is already on the agenda!
social workers, hmm, army and social work surely doesnt sound like a good mix to anyone.

It's a bad idea. They may have an advantage discipline-wise, but not necessarily, as there's obviously a difference between working with children and giving orders to adults. But there's so much more to being a teacher than that anyway. A detailed knowledge of your subject for starters, hence the degree. "Life skills" are a good start, but do not give someone the required academic knowledge to do a specialised job such as teaching.

SW soldiers sounds good to me.
They won't be deterred by obstructive parents or frightened by aggressive responses, or over-sensitive to ethnic considerations. Or unable to gain access.

And as Captain Kirk said upthread
'Used to working 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and therefore happily working long hours because he has a family to support.'

Saltire

Thanks for the info and yes, you are quite right many people autmomatically think "Army" and forget RN and RAF.

Students of all types, Cookie?

Do you get many 4-year olds in the army? Do you get many students with severe learning difficulties? Or badly disabled? Incontinent? Severely autistic?

I absolutely get what you are saying about the army having a reserve of skills that should not go to waste.

But it will be hell on earth for a former instructor of adults to have to do the very different job of teaching small children (some with learning difficulties) without adequate support and training

That is what most of us object to about this scheme. Not that it targets ex-army personnelas a potential source of recruitment, but that it says "oh well, unlike anybody else in society, ex-soldiers don't need the extra training and support, we can give them the bare minimum and then throw them into the classroom".

It official then. Gove has finally lost the plot.