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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that mark Bridger deserves to have his "parts" removed?

401 replies

whatever2 · 30/05/2013 22:00

while he's awake hopefully?
AngryAngryAngry

OP posts:
HoHoHoNoYouDont · 31/05/2013 00:24

He'll probably be on a wing with like minded criminals. They are well protected and secure. I think he'll sleep better than most of us tonight.

Morloth · 31/05/2013 00:26

Just put him in jail, maintain his life and forget about him.

Responding to savagery with savagery is pointless. It will just make things worse.

So you lock them up so they can't hurt anyone else, do the very least you can so that they stay alive/well and keep them there.

I understand the rage, and the desire for revenge, but it won't help to mutilate/kill people.

It won't bring April back and it won't stop it from happening again.

Poor baby girl.

zippey · 31/05/2013 00:27

I just feel sad about it all, poor little girl.

You'd have to be daft to advocate the death penalty. No, Im glad he isnt getting an early release via death and will be in prison his whole life. I just hope he tells April parents what has happened to her remains. April's parents have been unbelievably dignified throughout. RIP April.

yaimee · 31/05/2013 00:28

He won't be forever, and the staff will know what he's done, I think they'll make life as difficult for him as possible.
They aren't that well protected.
Ian Huntley was hit with prison napalm only very recently.

saulaboutme · 31/05/2013 00:32

I feel no pity for him and have always felt this. he should suffer.
Many an argument I have had on this subject and I still feel this way. Not just about him.

minouminou · 31/05/2013 00:37

Well, goodnight, ladies. It's late and I'm sure we've all got early starts tomorrow. Life without hope of release is as bad as it gets here, so all we can do is believe that he's been suitably punished.

MadameDefarge · 31/05/2013 00:42

He is an abomination of a human being.

but thank god we have a justice system that maintains humanity in the face of inhumanity.

where would we be otherwise?

YoniMatopoeia · 31/05/2013 00:48

The point of the prison service is to protect the public from harm (amongst other things). We dont hang or otherwise kill people for very good reason. The desire to mutilate or kill this man makes me most uncomfortable. What exactly do you think that would achieve? The supposed deterent oes not usually deter the crime, so it would just be pointless revenge for the baying croud

TuppenceBeresford · 31/05/2013 00:51

Life imprisonment seems about right to me; hopefully he wont be out for a long time, if ever. I don't really care about Bridger, though. I care about myself; as in, I care about doing my best (inevitably failing, but still trying) to be a moral person in an immoral world. And two wrongs don't make a right.

I honestly believe that desiring and taking pleasure in the suffering of another human being, no matter how evil their acts, diminishes ME as a human being. Bridger may seem completely lacking in humanity but I believe that by supporting the killing and/or torture of another human being (because however much we might like to pretend otherwise, that, unfortunately is what he is) I lose my own humanity. That wont have any effect on Bridger, but it will certainly damage me. Sorry if this all sounds really pious, by the way; that's not my intention.)

None of us can do anything about Bridger and none of us can do anything to bring poor April back - but we can feel for and empathise with her family without demeaning ourselves by indulging in ugly and destructive talk. It won't have any effect on Bridger but it I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really see the purpose of this thread.

As an aside, I don't want to be rude, but I don't think that ad hominem attacks - ie calling people who don't support your view names, or labelling them (the "human rights" brigade, the "pc brigade" etc) instead of engaging with their points is very helpful. (Incidentally, as a Christian, I don't agree with "human rights" as such but I believe that as humans we have a responsibility to treat our fellow-humans with respect and that it's not up to us to decide whether they deserve it or not.)

TuppenceBeresford · 31/05/2013 00:53

Sorry about cut and paste mistakes - I really should go to bed!

MadameDefarge · 31/05/2013 00:56

indeed yoni. which is why we render justice to a the justice system rather than vigellantes.

Because otherwise we get have got that poor paediatrian who was targeted a few years ago being lynched by a mob because they did not understand the difference between a paediatrican (ie doctor specialising in caring for ill children) and a paedophile...

hopkinette · 31/05/2013 01:04

Incidentally, as a Christian, I don't agree with "human rights" as such

I had no idea that being a Christian excludes believing in human rights.

MadameDefarge · 31/05/2013 01:08

The irony is that people who object to cruelty and violence can happily imagine themselves inflicting that upon another person, motivated by righteousness.

Its all nonsense and hot air. none of you would lift a fist to these people in real life.

AgnesBligg · 31/05/2013 01:17

but thank god we have a justice system that maintains humanity in the face of inhumanity.

I agree with this from MadameDefarge.

This case brings, rightly, anger and revulsion from all of us. Bridger is a scumbag lapping up hideous images and playing them out for real. I don't believe he won't suffer inside prison in fact I'm sure that his life will torment him for being totalled by this particular degraded heinous act. He is what he is.

I'm satisfied with that, I have to be.

hopkinette · 31/05/2013 01:33

I've not read the thread so forgive me if I'm repeating something that's already been said. But how does removing someone's penis render them incapable of sexually abusing a child?

TuppenceBeresford · 31/05/2013 01:39

I had no idea that being a Christian excludes believing in human rights.

Hi hopkinette, well not all Christians will agree with me - and maybe I am being a bit pedantic; it's just that my views on issues like this are informed by my Christian faith so I would feel like I was being disingenuous if I didn't mention it at some point IYSWIM.

Maybe it seems like a case of semantics, but basically the doctrine I believe in teaches that everything I have is through God's grace - not because I deserve it. So I don't exactly have the right to be treated in a certain way - but rather my fellow-humans have a responsibility to treat me with kindness and respect, and I am called upon to treat them likewise.

However, in an imperfect world where it can't be guaranteed that people will treat each other kindly I can see why we do need to legislate for "human rights" - and it's a phrase I do use myself, but I feel I have to qualify it, otherwise I'm not being entirely honest.

So the result is sort of the same although you may think I'm approaching the issue in a back-to-front way - and on the point of doctrine many Christians may also disagree with me!

Hope this makes sense!

Boomba · 31/05/2013 01:47
Hmm
hopkinette · 31/05/2013 01:48

basically the doctrine I believe in teaches that everything I have is through God's grace - not because I deserve it

What a sad, craven way to live.

MadameDefarge · 31/05/2013 01:51

well, having been raised a Catholic, I do remember being urged to turn the other cheek.

Never more relevant than in these situations.

Jesus had a pretty good grasp of "human rights".

"turn the other cheek"

"let you who are without sin cast the first stone"

The fact that these ideals are enshrined in the idea of human rights in a Western context, and informs the legislation that issues from these ideals should totally coincide with being a christian. Our entire sense of ethics and morality derives from the Judao-Christian tradition, in tandem with the Greco-Roman tradition kinda renders your last post a wee bit, well, incoherent.

Am struggling to see your philosophical point here. And certainly can't see your theological position.

In no way does being a Christian bring you into conflict with "Human Rights" as espoused by Western society.

Morloth · 31/05/2013 01:54

MadameDefarge 'The irony is that people who object to cruelty and violence can happily imagine themselves inflicting that upon another person, motivated by righteousness.'

No they don't Madame, they want someone else to do it for them.

They wouldn't be able to stomach the blood and the screaming and the terror themselves, but they are happy to outsource that to someone else.

Justfornowitwilldo · 31/05/2013 01:54

'He is an abomination of a human being.

but thank god we have a justice system that maintains humanity in the face of inhumanity.

where would we be otherwise?'

Beautifully put MadameDefarge

MadameDefarge · 31/05/2013 02:02

And yes, I do get your point. As a Christian.

But I do think it is splitting hairs. You think its by God's grace etc, as an atheist I prefer to rely upon humanity to order itself along mutually agreeable/convenient/ philosophical lines. And even, I would venture to say, commercial lines. Voltaire, in exile, said the great thing about the English (and I paraphrase) said give the english two religions and disaster (N Ireland anyone?) but given there were thirty different sects in England they all got along fine in terms of business. Cos business meant prosperity.

MadameDefarge · 31/05/2013 02:13

Indeed, Morloth. Which why I said imagine. Its a fantasy.

In reality. not a chance.

Which is why we devolve the unpleasant decisions to our justice system.

So that folk can witter on MN about cutting off genitals etc without the least fear they will be called upon to do so.

Perhaps we should institute a lottery system for all those who declare that is the just and right thing to do...and see if they themselves could lift the knive and do the deed.

there is a reason the executioners of olden times were well paid. Simply because very few were prepared to actually carry out the acts they bayed for so vocally.

TuppenceBeresford · 31/05/2013 02:20

Oh well I don't feel sad - when I focus on all the blessings I've been given in my life which I've done nothing special to deserve it helps me to stop being discontented (which I'm prone to - I'm only human).

Obviously you don't share my beliefs and I guess you think I'm a loon, which is fine. But you don't know me, so I don't see how you can make pronouncements about the way I live.

I think I should apologize, to be honest as I feel I've started a religious debate on thread on a sensitive topic and that honestly wasn't my intention - I guess I didn't expect anyone to engage with what I said. I just felt moved to post because all the posts supporting death-penalty, etc bothered me - but as I can't seperate my views on morality etc from my religious beliefs I felt that not to mention them, as I said earlier, would have been a bit dishonest, somehow.

MadameDefarge · 31/05/2013 02:25

hey tuppence, that is the way MN works! interesting off-topic discussions are the life blood of MN!

And tbh a good deal more interesting than the OP...