To be miffed with this woman....

[Chelt1982]

First ever post, so bear with me and apologies if I waffle!

My husband and I emigrated to Canada (away from all family and friends) 10months ago for his work. 1 month after getting here I had our DD and since then we've moved house twice and I've been very low with the stress and how lonely it can be with a reflux baby with dairy and soy allergies. There are other expats out here, but they really keep to themselves and haven't been welcoming. We've hosted numerous parties at our house and I try to get 'the wives' together once a week, but honestly, it exhausting and nobody else ever organises anything.

Anyway, I told you I'd waffle!

One of DHs old work colleagues has recently emigrated here too with his wife and their 1year old DS. After we've had such a tough transition, I really wanted to make sure they felt welcomed and supported. We see them a few times a week and its been great for me and DD as we finally have friends!

We are going back to the UK for a holiday soon and I wanted to do a welcome to Canada party at a local park to make sure they knew a few people before we left for a month.

I'm getting to the point now...

I'd set a date and invited people over, but since organising this, DHs work have changed their shift patterns and he would now be working till 5pm on the day of the party. I've contacted everyone I invited and gave 2 options. 1) we do the party later in the day at our house so DH doesn't have to rush about after work or 2) we do it on the Sunday.

I've had 2 replies so far saying they want to do it as planned at the park on Saturday and will go ahead without me and DH.

AIBU to be massively put out by this? We organised the party and now it looks like it will go ahead without us!

MrsTerry- I really hope when I can get out and about on my own ill be able to do all those sorts of things. Ill have a look at overseas...

Fur- you've hit the nail on the head. I thought that everyone would think their behaviour was unreasonable and I could have a good laugh about it! I was a bit shocked by the response.

We're under a GI specialist for DD and things have improved tremendously, but I guess I've had 7 months of learning to be frightened of taking DD out anywhere. The crying really finished me off!

I haven't got a GP out here and know I was very VERY low at points a few months ago. When you're that down, it's really hard to know how to get out of the hole. I suppose therapy would have sped the process up, but as I've mentioned, I'm terrible at asking for help!

I really care what others think about me (stoopid at 31!) and to think I don't get invited back because they don't like me is pretty terrifying!

Hattie- not sure it's worth it!!

Culture shock. It's a terrible thing.

I think its a cultural difference, to be honest. In the UK people might be willing to change it to just be polite but not in the US / Canada. Everyone is not going to change the plan to accommodate you. Daytime is easier when you have DCs. And its all agreed.

You just have to miss this one and hope your organizing pays off and everyone has a good time.

(( hugs ))

It's isolating enough to be at home with a baby. Adding in emigration and your DD's reflux and allergies and not having the car you've done well to make such an effort in keeping in touch with other people.

Get a taxi. And let the next bit of French you learn be the shrug with a dollop of insouciance. If your DD screams, she screams. You know how to handle her.

I found this page a few days ago. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French_profanity I recommend J'MEN CALICE

I think the 2 people who said they will go ahead without you they probably thought that you are taking the mic tbh. I thought the same until i read the next posts, how do they suppose o know that you can not go without dh? If they knew how you feel and how stressed you are they would probably have been more sympathetic.

You found the suggestion about your dd sleeping in the pram funny. Perhaps they find the suggestion that their dcs sleep at your house funny too. It is easier in the park ime.

chelt, I understand your situation and I'm thinking that perhaps the expats just assume you came up with the idea of meeting up at the park....rather than seeing it as a formal party per se.

Perhaps they didn't quite realise that you would be there too? Maybe they thought you came up with the idea and then it was up to them to get to know the other lady?

On another note, I don't think you sound as though you are like some of the negative things people posted above.....I actually feel quite concerned for you and think that you may possibly have signs of postnatal depression. Forgive me if this isn't the case but if you recognise some of the symptoms, then perhaps seeking some support from a local health professional, may help you feel more confident in your new environment.

The feelings of low self esteem, not coping easily with your dd etc could be exacerbating an underlying PND issue, or in fact be the cause of it......just a thought anyway

OP, please try and see a GP. The things you are saying are not normal reactions and it does send up warning flags. A chat with a GP will be able to help identify a way forward for you. You're taking this very personally, and I'll sure you'll find that it isn't personal at all.

Aside from that, try and stop pushing so hard. Forget the ex-pat community and just try and find some new friends, of any nationality. I've lived overseas before, and I wanted to meet people in the local community, not hang around with a bunch of aussies, and I would have been quite dismissive of constant attempts at getting together. Friendships form naturally, over time, they're rarely forced. If there's someone there who is meant to be a close friend, then they will emerge, when it's the right time for both of you. I wish you the best of luck.

You have a whole host of problems here, and the rude expat women are a minor issue. You have a baby with reflux and allergies; you are afraid to leave the house alone with the baby; you live somewhere where a car is essential, but do not have one; you've moved halfway around the world at a moment when you really need support. That's just a tough set of circumstances. You seem motivated and energetic, considering the situation.

The women who said they would go ahead with the park-party without you were rude, but then they may not be aware of all the above.

Of course you want to make friends. These women probably aren't going to be your friends - that's okay. Some others will. It takes time and lots of casting about. It's nice to know you can cross those two off your list of potential buddies.

Before you leave for the UK, please set yourself something to look forward to on your return. Sign up for a class, or a baby group, or French lessons - something. Because it will be very, very hard to return to this situation after being home in the UK if you haven't made some specific plan to improve things.

It's not your fault you're isolated - happens in the best expat situations, and you're not in the best situation. But it will get better and your DD will grow out of the worst of it. And you'll get a car! (By the way, can your DH get into work another way once or twice a week? Carpool? Bus? You drop off/pick up? Cuz you need a car.)

I feel for you. It's difficult to adjust to a new culture but you've got to contend with a new language and a new baby as well. That's a lot to have on your plate.

There have been some great suggestions by the other posters, especially gohound so I'll just give you these

I thought about you overnight and came here first thing today and am so glad to see the last few posters giving you some thoughtful advice abut what look like some tough underlying issues. Youve been brave and energetic, but right now I want to give you a hug and say stop with all this displacement activity, focus on building your personal happiness and your confidence with your DD. I too support the idea of getting medical help of some sort for you, and some kind of counselling to build your confidence that you can look after your DD perfectly and you are a wonderful mother. You don't need to make friends with 'the wives' (and even the way you describe them shows you haven't really connected with them either) you need to settle yourself and your baby into your new lives together. Reflux is a bugger and is getting in the way, but you can overcome this and solve your panic and agoraphobia, and then the rest will come. So doctor, therapy, car, and activities focused on you and her like baby massage and baby activities. Non-sustaining adult relationships are not what you need right now.

Yup. Nobody is forthcoming with lift offers and I hate asking for favours constantly. I have nothing to offer in return apart from 'thanks'. I don't like feeling indebted to people! But you do have things to offer in return, you organised the get together and you have your company to offer :)

Have you opened up about the alergies and colic? I bet if you speak openly in the group another parent may well have experienced the same issues.

I lived abroad in a hideous country, with a baby. I ended up with agoraphobia too.

When you are back in the UK pick up as much Rescue Remedy as you can carry and take it back with you, a few squirts and you'll feel calm enough to potter out.

Expat situations can be great, but often we're lumped together with people we'd never get to know in a million years.

The total LOONS I met were indescribable. I ended up with 1 solitary friend in the end, and i'm still in contact with her, years after leading.

Those women are crap.

Get a lift, take the car, or call a cab. H can join you later. Then focus on the women that you find add vale to your life and drop those that don't.

(((hug)))

Nothing great to add except I think you sound lovely, Chelt. I am an ex-pat too, in a non-English speaking country and it is HAAAAARD!! It will fall into place eventually. 10 months is quite a classic dodgy time...intitial novelty and excitement is over, but you're not comfortable yet and you realise that this is the reality.

Re the BBQ - if you can summon up the courage at all, absolutely ask the new ex-pats for a lift and go to the park with them. Then your DH can come and collect you and you can hotfoot it home to get DD to bed. You may feel nervous and horrible about going, but I promise you you will feel glad that you did it afterwards
Getting out of the door is the hardest part. Here's a for you.

Must preview posts. Initial novelty and excitement are over

Chelt, I think you sound like a very lovely and supportive friend. You've organised a get together but the other women sound happy to go along without you, I'm not surprised you feel crappy about it! These women sound awful.

I think I've read the situation differently but here's a thought: could it be that the other women aren't too happy about your DH constantly being there? You say that you can't go anywhere without your DH, perhaps the other women don't feel that they can open up and confide in you because you're always with him? I know that baby groups can become quite close knit and there's no way I would have half of the conversations at our baby group that I do if others' DH were there too. It's not a bash at your DH at all, but other women won't want to be friends with you as a pair. It may also convey that you actually don't need their friendship because you always have your DH with you.

I don't think you have mental issues, I'd feel the same (ha but maybe I have too then!) but I do agree that I'd prefer a meet up in a park rather than at someone's house as if LO has a meltdown then I can leave without causing offense. Maybe the other women are thinking that you'll go without your DH and they'd actually prefer that, if their DH won't be there? it is quite hard to get to know someone when they are a pair.

Your mistake was offering options. If you're organising it, you tell them the change in plans, and not offer them several different options.

I don't think you were being bossy, in fact I don't think you were being bossy enough!!!

I think I would go ahead with the original plans without your DH. I guess people probably think if a bunch of people are going why should it all change on your DHs plans. On the surface of things it's not a big deal to go with him. I don't think the other ladies are being unreasonable.

It sounds like you are making a real effort to make friends, get out a bit more etc so you it might be good for you to get out and socialise without your DH.

Thanks for the kind messages overnight!

Just- even swearing in québécois is tricky!!

Loopy and midnite - I too thought it was/is PND but it seems all the docs would suggest is exercise and CBT, so I walk for 4miles a day with DD and try to be 'Pollyanna' and focus on good things!

Gohound - we're trying to book a little holiday for when we get back to have something to look forward to! Car is a priority when the money is here!

Working - I keep thing surely it shouldn't be this hard to meet nice people! Hopefully going back to UK will be the reset I need to start again with renewed vigour!

Honeytea - I have opened up about all the issues I have had with these women, which is why it smarts more I suppose! Maybe that scares them off and they think I'm too much hard work?!

Hissy - nice to know I'm not unique! Will seek out RR!

Rap - I know I always feel better when I've finally got out the door! I guess I just need to push myself harder to do it more often and it'll get easier.

Mulberry - I do see them without DH, when we meet for local walks or coffee at mine. Maybe the fact it's always on my terms puts them off? They don't make suggestions though, so I always make a plan that'll suit me first!!

DIY -

Wowzer - I guess I thought they might be a bit more accommodating towards me as they know how hard I find it to get out and about. It's not their problem though, so why would they?!

Party aside, my take on your situation is influenced slightly by also being an expat. We moved to the US last year but are currently back home visiting. My baby was 9 months when we moved and I am pregnant with DC2 at the mo.

I'd bet anything you'd be a different person if you were back home - you don't have PND, you're homesick and understandably so given how thoroughly isolated you sound. It's hard having a new baby. It's hard moving. It's hard without your own transport. Combine all three and no wonder you're finding it tricky.

The party thing is nothing personal - from my experience, the American mums I know would have added the date to their diaries and then planned the rest of their weekends. They probably wouldn't understand your not being able to get there now due to the car issue as car usage is such a requirement, particularly if you're not somewhere urban.

Your DH may be a great dad and very understanding etc but you need to make him see just how lonely you are - due to the situation you find yourself in. His career shouldn't take priority over your health and well being.

Good luck with it all. I've been expatting for years and like hissy says, the nutters you meet really do the head in! Some people just totally lose the plot - like saying to someone who has organised a party, hey, we'll just go ahead without you (!). Hang in there. And I know it seems a small thing, but having a car will make you feel a whole lot better and more independent.

Does your DH need the car FOR his job or to GET TO his job? Because I would honestly have him look into alternative transport arrangements - at least once or twice a week - if he's only using it to commute to & from. I know that might be tough on him - but it's tough on you, too.

Exercise and CBT aren't the only treatments for PND. Many people need some medication to ease them back to normal. Do consider going to your doctor if you think it could be that.

I've been thinking about you a lot overnight. I think the fundamental problem is asymmetry of importance: to you, organising this was an important social event that you considered a party. So when you feel you were brushed off, that hurt a lot. But to the other women, it was probably a loose plan to meet in the park to welcome a new family. To the extent it was 'for' someone, it was for them, rather than for you. So when your DH's plans changed they just thought 'Oh, let's just go ahead as is'. I'd guess they might well have plans for the Sunday and hence not want to change the day.

I'd also bet that no one who said this thought "well, if we don't change then Chelt can't go". They will just have thought that your DH couldn't go. And presumably if they work shift patterns some of the working partners wouldn't have been able to go on any date.

I really think this is a good chance to remind your DH that it can't be all about his convenience. Can he not find someone to give him a lift to work, or to the park after work (if you drop him to work in the morning). Having one car does not mean that the person WOH gets it all the time and the SAHP gets to be trapped in the house. I'm sure he's a lovely husband, but that's just being (almost certainly unintentionally) selfish - he needs to put himself out for you. That applies even if, say, this once he has to add an hour onto his journey to get public transport.

Then you steal yourself to go out on your own and you do it. That will be a lot easier if you have the car yourself and can leave if it gets too much. Fake it until you make it. Keep taking DD out and pretending it is easy and soon it will be.

Honestly, and I say this with every sympathy as I've recently relocated (though only within the UK), if you are new you can't be the one who is hard work. When you have built up a body of genuine friends, that's when you get to make demands and expect support through tough times. You are only just moving out of acquaintance with these women. You want to be easy and fun and laid back if you can possibly fake it. It's awful to say, but people have full and busy lives with their own stresses and it's very hard to make the extra effort with people you don't even really know very much. I had a friend in my circle when I had DD1. She was lovely, but she found getting out and about stressful and she was always trying to arrange us and inviting us round to hers then expecting us to stay all day, plying us with far too much food, etc. None of the rest of us knew each other either, but it was all just a bit 'much' and lots of people drifted off. I always felt bad for her, but I could understand it. What should have been a nice social situation became a bit like another obligation.

Also, try and make yourself less dependant on these women. That always makes it hard to be laid back. There must be baby things round about you - toddler groups, something at a local library, one of the paid for classes like singing or baby sensory? When I moved to our new area with my two pre-schoolers, I went through loads of websites and made a big list of toddler groups and other cheap/free events. Then I just went. Some I never went back to, some I loved. There's also a website called meetup.com that another friend swore by when she moved (although not tried it myself). I know you find getting out a hassle, but I think you need to get a solution to that that's quicker than the time taken to get another car. Can your DH arrange a lift share so he'd leave the car behind some days? No idea how big children have to be for those bike attachment thingys? Are there any buses you can plan your trips out around? Anywhere you can walk if determined?

Hope you are feeling a bit better today. You'll get there. x

The family you have organized the party for, can they not pick you and your dd up? Then you arrive to the party with them, and can stay in their company? The least they could do considering the trouble you have gone to, and your kindness and thoughtfulness.

I am sure if you tell your friend your dilemma, and ask for a lift she will be more than willing. I am sure she would be mortified if she came to the party and you were not there, and she had not even realized you needed a lift!

I should add, exercise is vital for pnd and depression, but so also is Omega 3!

When I taught Norwegian to foreigners moving to the arctic, I made sure to explain to them why they need to either include fatty fish in their diets, or eat high quality Omega 3 supplements.

The body needs vitamin D for health and vitality and the mind for happyness. But, due to long winters and lack of sunshine people dont get enough. It is due to the difference in climate between the "middle and southern Europe" and the northern hemisphere. We need to make up for the shortfall through our diets by eating more fish, or taking supplements.

So please ensure you take omega3 supplements or include plenty of salmon and mackerell in your diet. It takes a month to make a difference.

Wibbly it's perhaps nothelpful to say "you don't have PND". I see what you are saying and I certainly wasn't saying the OP defo had PND but suggested she has possible symptoms of it.

I don't think you should dismiss it or in fact dismiss CBT. If you asked the GP to book you in for some sessions, I think it might help you find ways to cope with everyday situations. A well known definition of abnormality and what can be described as being abnormal is when unwanted behaviour detrimentally affects your everyday life.....which yours seems to.

Whether or not its PND specifically or more like anxiety, you have gone through so much over the past year...pregnancy, childbirth and emigrating to a far off place where many people speak French and not English. All of that has meant isolation, feelings of loneliness and being debilitated in doing everyday things. I think finding strategies to help you deal with this, including how your dh could help you in different ways, might be a god solution. If you have space, perhaps a nanny or au pair/mothers help could be a good idea. Some company for you as well as some help with your dd and the housework etc. [hug]