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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be shocked and frustrated with the Islamophobia that's bursting out all over Facebook today?

672 replies

Seekingsense · 22/05/2013 21:38

Following the awful tragedy in Woolwich today.

I have seen everything from "We want our England back" to "Kick out all the foreigners" to "Islamic infiltration of the UK" etc. I have paraphrased as some of the stuff is so horrible I do not want to repeat it.

This is from normal everyday people and lots of them. Is this really what people think?

I, like most people am horrified by what has happened to this young soldier in Woolwich, but why is everyone so quick to blame an entire religion for it and to jump on the 'kick out all immigrants' bandwagon.

What can we do about it? Ignore, delete, post, report?

OP posts:
cory · 23/05/2013 14:15

They are British, with ancestors from a former British colony in Africa and one of them at least was brought up a Christian. You can see how this situation just needs to be resolved by sending everybody back to the Middle East. Confused

Moominsarehippos · 23/05/2013 14:18

Has anyone else noticed a lot more police/support teams on the streets today? I have.

lottieandmia · 23/05/2013 14:19

I'm getting sick of the immigration bashing as well - PatPig I think your posts are nonsense. You are essentially saying we wouldn't have any problems with crime or violence if immigration didn't happen. Can you not see how ridiculous that is?

MrsTerryPratchett · 23/05/2013 14:22

I was British in Italy during the Heysel Stadium tragedy. We were bullied, scared, told to lie and say we were Australian or American. I was a child who BTW supported Juventus. I saw 'British go home' graffiti. It's scary and horrible and that was an isolated incident.

Moominsarehippos · 23/05/2013 14:23

I work 'in religion' and find that converts or born agains (usually after having a lovely wild time in their youigh before finding god) can often hold the most extreme views.

amazingmumof6 · 23/05/2013 14:23

Patpig - we all come from Africa originally. scientific fact.

so what if they are of Nigarian decent?
I do not see your point.

KRITIQ · 23/05/2013 14:23

This is part of what I put on the News thread about the crap on social media -

I think sadly there are alot of folks out there who do harbour racist, Islamaphobic and other bigoted views, even if they don't broadcast the fact all the time. They are on the "alert" for examples that support their views because these give them a sort of "permission" to be more candid in talking about what they believe. I certainly don't believe that today, thousands of folks suddenly turned into bigots because of one (albeit terrible) murder. The incident has simply flushed them out from their cover and because they are hearing/seeing so many voices that concur with theirs, they feel more emboldened in their bigotry.

I'm also quite sick of everyone crying that Muslims aren't or aren't doing enough to condemn what happened "in their name." Funnily enough, I haven't heard anyone insisting white English people need to do more to condemn the EDL for throwing bottles and stones at the police last night - which they claimed to do in the name of (get this) white English people!

If you get a chance, look at the twitter feed for @Fatihah_Iman. She's apologising for everything from formerly being a Catholic to her dad being a Tory, just showing up how stupid these calls are that effectively hold Muslims accountable for stuff that has nowt to do with them. Because those who ask do so to berate and scapegoat, nothing they say or do will ever be enough anyhow.

PatPig · 23/05/2013 14:25

Cory, there are obviously reasons why we have many Pakistani immigrants in this country but not many Moroccans, for example, whereas in Holland, it is the other way round.

But that's hardly relevant to the 'man on the street' who is unhappy with the change to his neighbourhood.

Fllippinada, when I lived in an area that was historically Christian, in a Muslim country, in-country migration resulted in many people converting to Islam. In this case, I'm quite confident that the impetus for people to convert to Islam has come as a result of immigration. There is no significant White British Muslim community.

Gordy people born in the UK in many cases retain a specific non-British identity. For instance, British Chinese people, though speaking with a British accent, may retain strong ties to China. In the case of British-born men of Nigerian descent living in Woolwich, the identity is not specifically British, but British and Nigerian, since there are numerous Nigerian shops, restaurants, new Nigerian immigrants, and so on in the area.

Few White British people would know what fufu is, but I would imagine that nearly all British Nigerian people do. I know lots of people of immigrant background, they have British passports, but they also retain an immigrant identity, and proudly so.

That doesn't mean however that you can say 'ah but they were born in Britain'. Yes they were, but many things about them are of immigrant origin. Not bad or good, but White British people in these areas may say, 'actually I prefer things how they were'.

MonstersDontCry · 23/05/2013 14:26

It amazes me how ignorant some people are. My facebook is full of racists rants, it actually sickens me.

FloralPuddles · 23/05/2013 14:29

This thread is strange! People seem to be running to post here every time they are 'forced' to delete someone off facebook? I don't get it?

I see a lot people saying in this thread that they wished that they could say/write/reply something to those on facebook, well why don't you? wouldn't that be more constructive then posting on mumsnet of how annoyed you are at someone's facebook posting? is it not a little strange to be checking in here every time the delete button gets hit on FB?

Oh and its never a good idea to post what you put as your status on fb on a very public mumsnet, I am sure your intention was to show how 'NON-bigoted' you are but it also outed to you ;)

FloralPuddles · 23/05/2013 14:30

Apologies for the typos. Fat fingers!

Chipstick10 · 23/05/2013 14:31

Floral puddles you beat me to it, was going to post exactly the same thing, but you put it so much better than I would've done.

PatPig · 23/05/2013 14:31

lottieandmia, of course we would have crime without immigration. However there are certain crimes that are associated with immigration.

For instance, without immigrants, there would be no smuggling of bushmeat to the UK.

That's just an example.

Another example is that in countries like Iceland, where there are almost no Muslims, they have no Islamist attacks.

That's not to say that Muslim immigration is bad, it's just that the connection between the group that is 'other' and the crime they commit is obvious and people say 'hang on a minute why are they even here?'

That's a perfectly natural reaction for people to have, and denying that there's any connection is not helpful in my view, because people can see it with their own eyes and hear it with their own ears, so when you say 'ah but football supporters are also violent', people see that as obfuscation, frankly.

A fact about immigration is that where a particular group is associated with a particular crime that becomes more conspicuous, than if it was a crime committed by the majority (white British) population.

lottieandmia · 23/05/2013 14:33

FP - I have posted counter arguments on facebook.

I think the reason people post about it is because you can know someone and they seem nice and normal until something like this happens and you realise actually they're a bigot and it's depressing.

To be 'non-bigoted' is nothing to brag about - it's how we should all be!

eminemmerdale · 23/05/2013 14:35

The EDL are planning a march on the 27th apparently.

FloralPuddles · 23/05/2013 14:38

I am sorry lottie but this thread really is coming across as a bragging, back-slapping and congratulatory love-in for all those that are 'forced' to delete people off facebook with an obligatory sigh!

Strange.

lottieandmia · 23/05/2013 14:40

I see it differently Fp - what is there to brag about? Some people have a disgusting attitude and for those of us who have to put up with it from people we know well is annoying.

Why do you object to people posting about things they find annoying? It happens all over this site

lottieandmia · 23/05/2013 14:42

The point is PatPig, that there shouldn't be connections between crimes like this and religion because in reality no religion supports such a thing.

Your posts are sounding racist 'this doesn't happen in Iceland because there are no muslims'.

The fact is that people who commit crimes like this are murdering psychopaths who use religion as an excuse.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS · 23/05/2013 14:42

Yanbu. It is sickening.

flippinada · 23/05/2013 14:44

I get the impression this will be dismissed out of hand anyway, but why on earth would anyone immigrate to the UK and then convert to Islam, if that isn't their religion?

Converting to Christianity would surely make more sense, as the UK is predominantly a Christian country.

gordyslovesheep · 23/05/2013 14:46

yes I have duel identity Patpig but I am BRITISH - if I committed a crime would you also blame immigration

Chipstick10 · 23/05/2013 14:46

Such sweeping statements from people about others who are expressing things the way they see it. I'm not keen on over camp men, does that make me homophobic?

PatPig · 23/05/2013 14:46

How is it racist to say that Islamist attacks do not occur where there no Muslims? It is a statement of the obvious.

That doesn't mean that there are no murders in Iceland of course.

Also religion clearly does support this, people do not get inspired by photography, or chess, or whatever, to do this. The majority of religious people do not follow this interpretation, but there are justifications for such acts to be found within religion, even though there are statements saying that acts are unjustifiable too - some people go for the extremist interpretation.

KirjavaTheCat · 23/05/2013 14:47

People can genuinely surprise you. I thought I knew the woman who last night shared an EDL rant, along her rather extreme views on why England should stay white. She'd never said anything to me about her views on multiculturalism or immigration, her child has played with my mixed-race child, she's never raised an eyebrow at my partner's race. She's never condemned our mutual friends' religion.

Until last night. Because she was among other facebook friends who were equally as outraged and doing the same, she felt completely at ease with her views and didn't care who saw them. I had absolutely no idea. Maybe she'll regret it in a week when it's died down a little, who knows.

FloralPuddles · 23/05/2013 14:47

I do not object to people posting about things they find annoyin, I have never said that. I do though find it very strange that it looks like people are running to post here every time they delete someone, they "wish they could say something to that person" but they don't, they delete then tell mumsnet/ the world that they have! I don't object, not at all its just strange.

People are copying and pasting status's into this very public thread, so whilst they won't actually say on FB what they really think to those they are forced to delete, they are instead outing themselves on here. Lots and lots of people read mumsnet without ever signing up.

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