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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I didn't see a stranger take a photo of my DS. I feel sick.

241 replies

CoffeeChocolateWine · 17/05/2013 17:02

Please go easy on me as I'm expecting to get a flaming here. But if anyone has anything nice and supportive to say then please do!

I took my two DC swimming earlier...DS is almost 5, DD is 10 months. We were on the bus on the way to the pool and I stood with DD in her pram in the buggy area (the brake on my pram doesn't work so had to stay with her where I was) but DS wanted to sit at the back of the bus. There was only about 3 rows of seats between us and I could see him quite clearly so I thought it was fine.

My DS is a confident little chap and he started chatting to a man who was sitting opposite him...showing him his Octonauts toys that he had with him and telling him the characters names etc. Anyway, I could hear exactly what my DS was saying and I could see him from where I was and he was fine, the man he was chatting to was in his 50s or 60s and looked like a nice friendly man and I wasn't concerned at all. He was just being friendly to my DS. But I was keeping an eye on him...but also trying to entertain DD in her pram.

Anyway, when we got off the bus my DS said goodbye to the man he had been chatting to and the man smiled and waved. And my DS started telling me that he'd been chatting to a nice man and telling me what they'd been talking about. But then he told me the man took a photo of my DS on his phone. I DID NOT see this...must have been when I was looking at DD in her pram.

The way my DS tells it, was that DS pulled a funny face and the man took a pic so DS could see it. But I just FEEL SICK at the thought of this man...a COMPLETE stranger walking around with a pic of my son on his phone and I am really punishing myself already that I didn't see it and walk over to the man and ask him to not take photos of my son and to delete it from his phone.

I can't stop thinking about it and I feel sick and I'm shaking as I type this. I don't think I'm over-reacting...any mum would feel the same right? Before anyone starts criticising me...I know, I know I will get my DS to sit or stand with me next time and not speak to strangers. It was very misjudged and I'm punishing myself already. But as I was there and hearing (but evidently not seeing) everything that was going on, I didn't see the harm. Now I do.

OP posts:
MrsAVB · 18/05/2013 09:33

Hi OP - YANBU, I can understand your nervousness. But I think children should be encouraged to take safe risks and its a great opportunity to open a conversation with DS sensitively about how great he is at being independent and scope out what he feels about what is safe and what isn't, so you can start to teach him how to be safe and independent as he grows up. There's lots of research around how older children/ teenagers who get involved with risk-taking behaviour when they're older, whether that's drugs, sex, running away, not being responsible with money, online safety etc. were not enabled to take positive risks, deal with things independently etc as they grew up and so didn't learn to assess and manage risky situations themselves. I know DS is only little and it's not like you're going to let him do anything unsupervised, but I think it's positive that you let him sit at the back of the bus and shows good parenting rather than bad. Take this as an opportunity Smile and stop beating yourself up.

Alisvolatpropiis · 18/05/2013 11:09

YABU and overreacting.

Would you feel the same if a woman had taken a photo of your DS? Probably not.

Wuxiapian · 18/05/2013 11:19

Why would you assume that, Alisvolatpropiis?

It would be irrelevant to me whether it was man or woman.

Alisvolatpropiis · 18/05/2013 11:32

Wuxiapian just because women are not generally portrayed as paedophiles,fewer are reported as being so. Because women are considered to be the "nurturers" and therefore safer,even when it's a stranger. Very generally speaking.

Wuxiapian · 18/05/2013 11:50

So, there are no female murderers/child abusers, Alisvolatpropiis?

There is a perception that woman are safer. It doesn't make it so.

flanbase · 18/05/2013 11:59

It's polite to ask before taking a photo of someones child as there is no law preventing people from taking photos in public areas. I would be uneasy about someone photographing my child & not asking or telling me. I don't think the person was criminal but that they look a liberty to take a photo and not say something before doing so.

TonytheFish · 18/05/2013 12:20

"flanbase Fri 17-May-13 23:23:32
it's an issue of politeness to ask if it's ok to take a picture of someones child."

It is an issue of politeness to make sure someone else is happy to entertain your child for you more I would imagine. She was perfectly happy for this total stranger to entertain him and chat to him.

People talk about this man having been "rude" and "taking liberties". Well, expecting someone else to have to entertain your child, because said child wanted to sit at the back of the bus is surely just as rude, if not more so.

He may have been happy talking to your child, he may have hated it and been just going along with it, to avoid a showdown with a parent who cannot believe that anyone would not want to talk to her little darling.

but he was sat on a bus, then put into the position of having to chat to and entertain a 5 year old, so did his best and did so, and now is having his motives, if not torn to shreds, then certainly questioned on a forum.

flanbase · 18/05/2013 12:28

I don't think he was made to entertain the child. He could have ignored or moved away if there was another seat. I don't find anything wrong in what the mother did what I do find wrong his him not asking to take a photo as it's respectful to the mother on the bus being the parent. He could have just said I'm showing your son my phone and the special effects for photos or whatever and the mother would have said great & thank you or she could have said I'd prefer if you didn't take a photo of him.

TonytheFish · 18/05/2013 12:37

Yes, but in the same vein, she could have asked the man if he was ok with having to sit there and chat to a 5 year old. it goes both ways. And really, most people, even if they really did not want to have to sit there and chat about Octonauts, are not really going to say no, move away and be the one who is the mean git to the 5 year old are they. She assumed he was happy to chat to her ds, she never asked.

Everyone keeps banging on about he should have asked, he should have asked...yes well, maybe he should have, but she should have made sure he was happy to sit there and chat away to a child. Respect goes both ways.

i have a 5 year old ds, and he would be everyone's best friend if he could, but i do not let him start up conversations with random strangers, unless, they have made it perfectly clear that they are happy to do so, i distract him and bring him back to me and entertain him myself.

LizGreen · 18/05/2013 12:38

It's strange but no big deal.

Your son was fully clothed and in public; if you were playing in the park and people were taking pictures in general he would probably be in the background on many shots.

If you're that worried tell the police - most busses have CCTV these days so they should be able to find him.

Pagwatch · 18/05/2013 12:55

Perhaps he was going to make a poster with

'if this kid sits next to you move because it's bloody octonauts for the whole bloody journey..' underneath.

flanbase · 18/05/2013 12:59

Her son sitting next to someone on the bus doesn't mean they are obliged to entertain them

TheBirdsFellDownToDingADong · 18/05/2013 13:02

Grin at Pagwatch.

I trust you don't allowed Grandad and Uncle Jim to take pictures of your children OP?

What with them being statistically the most likely to be paedos and all?

but yes, do call the police so we can have a laugh

Pagwatch · 18/05/2013 13:06

No. But it can be hard to ignore a child without feeling like a git.

And if you are happy to leave your child babbling away at a stranger it seems a bit churlish to freak out about the manner in which they deal with that time.

Ds1 often used to use gizmos to entertain DD because he had no clue wtf she was talking about if she chatted about the bear in the big blue house. The app that made her look really weird was hilarious to her and he was on familiar territory and he used that a lot when he ran out of stuff to play.

Fakebook · 18/05/2013 13:27

I wouldn't like a stranger taking a picture of my children without permission and I certainly wouldn't let my dd sit at the back of the bus or anywhere else on the bus away from my line of sight whilst I was occupied with a baby. This is not just because of stranger danger, but mainly because I don't want her disturbing and annoying people. dd has had perfectly long and lovely conversations with old people and youngsters whilst sitting next to me for whole bus journeys.

My husband is more relaxed than me and often when he takes dd anywhere on the bus he'll let her go off and sit where she likes. Last time she apparently had a long conversation about Doctor Who with another little boy who was also at the back.

Maybe if you do have this kind of fear then teach your DS to sit next to you?

Original poster
CoffeeChocolateWine · 18/05/2013 19:00

Hi, OP back again.

Just wanted to say thank you to the people who have been a bit more understanding and generally a bit kinder to me...I appreciate it.

But I am aware to many of you think that I'm a bit of a fruitcake. It doesn't really matter what you think because you are just anonymous strangers on the internet. However, FWIW, I'm not a fruitcake.

Basically, my DH and I have long had a difference of opinion about 'stranger danger' with him often telling me, believe it or not, that I'm far too relaxed, far too trusting and naive about the fact that there are not-so-nice people out there. I've always sat firmly in the camp of I'm going to assume they're nice unless they give me reason to doubt them.

In recent months I've been loosening my grip on DS...giving him a bit of independence and letting him feel like a big boy. Things like, allowing him to sit at the back of the bus, getting me something further up the aisle in a supermarket, or letting him look at magazines while I pay for the shopping, or if we are in a restaurant and the toilets are within sight, letting him go on his own. I'm ok with these things as they are always never letting him out of my sight but allowing him to feel like a big boy. My DH often doesn't like it, but I think he's over-reacting.

But yesterday, while I thought he was under watchful gaze, something happened that I feel crossed a line but I DIDN'T SEE IT and it shocked me...rocked me even. My overly extreme reaction - the feeling sick, the shaking - was not just a ridiculous reaction to some minor and in all probability innocent incident of a man taking a photo on a bus...it was because it made me question EVERY TIME I've loosened my grip on him and made me doubt my judgement as a parent. My head suddenly was swimming with so many what ifs and what things could have happened EVERY TIME I've done this and gosh, has my DH been right all along and am I incredibly naive and trusting and have I been placing my DS in harm's way etc.

So assume I'm a fruitcake or an overly anxious mum if you like, but I'm not...I'm just a mother who had a pretty major wobble about her ENTIRE PARENTING STYLE and needed a bit of hand holding and perspective. Many of you gave me that so Thanks.

Also, someone asked what my neighbourhood is like. If you'd asked me a month ago, I would have said that it's lovely, and friendly and safe. But 3 weeks ago there was an attemped abduction of a 6yo girl. Fortunately no harm came to her but perhaps that's playing on my mind too.

OP posts:
Bobyan · 18/05/2013 19:06

Sorry but I still don't see where you are coming from.
You freak out about someone taking a perfectly innocent photo, but have let your D's go to the loo on his own?!?

flanbase · 18/05/2013 19:19

I see your point coffeechocwine & you are not a fruitcake :)

Original poster
CoffeeChocolateWine · 18/05/2013 21:55

Bobyan, feeling very silly for not realising I had to be so specific because obviously that would be pounced upon. I'm not talking about letting a 4yo go into a communal toilet in a busy Pizza Express or similar by himself. Is it too much to ask for a bit of credit to be given? Clearly.

Yes I occasionally let him go to the loo by himself...specifically I'm talking about 2 small restaurants we know well where the doors from the restaurant lead straight into a single cubicle. There is that better or is there anything else you'd like to pick apart??

OP posts:
Bobyan · 19/05/2013 00:08

You asked a bunch of strangers on the internet for their opinions. You got them, the majority of them disagreed with you.

You're the one "shaking" and "feeling sick"' frankly if you want "hand holding" then don't ask a bunch of strangers on the internet, on a forum called "Am I Being Unreasonable?" if you are being unreasonable!!!!

YABU and quite neurotic.

lucindapie · 19/05/2013 05:49

Hi coffee choc

With the abduction of the girl it's no wonder you are putting things in perspective and thinking about how best to look after your son. Walking the line between allowing him some independence but also making sure he's safe. I am sure together with your husband you can come up with ways that work that you both agree on,

I'm sorry that you've been attacked a bit on here, it's a shame some people like to attack others, without knowing the back story.

lucindapie · 19/05/2013 05:50

And also totally disagree with the poster that says she's being neurotic. There was a girl abducted from her neighbourhood so it's hardly neurotic to be a bit more wary given the circumstances.

TheBirdsFellDownToDingADong · 19/05/2013 06:19

Well we're not feckin clairvoyants are we? If she doesn't tell us the back story then we can't know it....

And I still think she's neurotic.

SwishSwoshSwoosh · 19/05/2013 06:35

Oh, OP, I agree nothing bad is likely to come of it, but I don't think it is strange to sometimes get anxious. The world is a complicated place and we have little control, I guess this anxiety was just a way of your brain trying to work it through.

Even though we live somewhere very safe we do still have to process the randomness of life which is always there.

Minipig007 · 19/05/2013 06:53

I think that the media is twisting our view on the world and within a generation we have gone from trusting others to.trusting no-one.
I think you are a.bit more concerned about this than is necessary. No harm will come to your DS and the chances of it being an illicit situ are small.