To encourage my girls to do pageants?

[Sparklymommy]

Ok, sure I am going to be blasted here, however:

I am in the UK, where the pageant scene isn't nearly as bad as it is in the USA. My daughters WANT to compete and ooze confidence and stage presence. They both already perform in dance festivals and talent shows and love the whole dressing up, being beautified thing. My eldest is 10, my youngest 4 next month.

I would never "expect" them to win, or put pressure on them if they didn't do well. I am not into "sexualising" them or turning them into mini adults I just think they would enjoy the experience and it would be good for them.

OP is either off watching her 3 year old Blue Steel for a bunch of strangers or has had second thoughts about posting.

"watching her 3 year old Blue Steel"

To me listening to a child means listening to what they want (as long as it is a good thing) and then finding a sensible way that they might have a chance to achieve it, not listening to their often impractical ideas of how to get there.

Dd has always wanted to perform on the stage. When she was younger she pestered me to get an agent and let her audition for films. I told her this was not the right way to go about it if she wanted any longterm chances in the profession.

Instead I encouraged her to join a good youth theatre where she would learn to work with others, I told her she had to read widely to give depth to her performance, and I took her to see shows so she would get to see how real actors do it.

Of course I don't know if dd will make a career out of performance. She may not. But at least I think I've given her a better chance- and the things she has learnt on the way will stand her in good stead whatever career she takes up. So I listened. But as an adult listening to a child.

Why would you want to dash your child's sense of spontaneity and living in the moment?
In order to win these things you have to be aware of everything about yourself so you can manipulate the audience well enough.

But don't you know that winning us everything?! That's why you do performing arts - so you can win in make up.

If she needs to spread her wings, why not drama, or competing in other ways. Why not football? Or learn a language? Polish her brains, not her nails. Beauty fades, other accomplishments are more lasting. Also, being praised for being beautiful is like being praised for being tall, or having two legs - all these are things over which you have no control. Something that requires effort, now that would be an accomplishment.

I don't think that there is a compromise here, is there ?
Pageant vs RL expressive arts
Exhibiting vs performing
Parents who would vs those who wouldn't

I accept that there are more 'princessy' girls and ones more drawn being tomboys, and I know fine well what camp I fell/fall in to no prizes for guessing.

The whole idea of paegeants just makes my teeth itch. But then again I know I'd be a rubbish Tiger Mother or Tennis Mother or Gymnastics Mother beyond the playful stage.

I think good parenting involves listening to your children and then doing what you feel is right.

YABU. Journalist.

Oooooo. Klepto. Evidence?

Evidence? No. Opinion? Yes. Mine. This is my observation - the OP uses English in a British way.

My opinion is not pejorative, however I don't think this an American person, although to be fair they haven't claimed to be, merely stating they have been in the country for 2 months.

I could go into a comparative analysis of American and English syntax, but I'm not going to, because it's my opinion not a thesis. :)

That's really heartwarming JennyEnglsh. It's reassuring that some of the next generation have learnt they don't have to fall into those roles. I like seeing actual confidence in children like that - rejecting the boys' right to judge them on their looks instead of reacting to the "judgements"

You tell me none of your kids have fairy dresses and play at being princesses?

Two boys and a girl here. None of them play at being princesses.

http://www.featureworld.co.uk/newspaper-stories/storysold90-child-beauty-pageant/

I object to unnecessary wigs on small children.

It's a bit like Irish dancing without the dancing.

Also what is with all these threads tonight? Every second one I click on seems to be written to goad/massively passive aggressive/blatant fishing or just really wierd - and not in a good way.

Am giving up on mumsnet for tonight as it's just plain depressing.

Sorry, Klepto. You misunderstood my post. Was an excited "ooo" rather than a confrontational one. I was intrigued, rather than having a go.

YABVU

I have two girls of 10 and 6. They play Princesses, they love pink and sparkly, they dance, sing, act and do gymnastics (all both competitively and for fun) and are girly girls to the core. But there is no way in hell they would be entering a pageant for two very different reasons.

My 10 year old is borderline eating disordered, anxious, obsessive and has very low self esteem. Performing brings her to life, she adores it and she is good at it - but anything that judges her on her appearance rather than her talent (ie something she can't work on) would break her.

My 6 year old is a shameless exhibitionist, performing monkey and has rather a good opinion of herself. She is very talented and she knows it. She would probably love a pageant but it would be terribly bad for her in the opposite way to my older daughter - she would be insufferable.

So, whether your daughters are confident and extroverted or shy and insecure, I think pageantry is a very bad idea.

YANBU
If your children want to do it and you're not sexuallizing your children, let them.
Pageants have a stigma on them because of Toddlers and Tiaras. But the whole point of that show is shock value. Sticking your kids in drama lessons instead wont necessarily be as fun for them as pageants, and to some extent I think you should ignore some of the worrywarts on this thread.

If you look at the outfits used in Latin American/Ballroom Dancing, they can be just as open and "sexuallized" as in pageants, and I bet not many who are condemning pageants would condemn dance lessons in the same way I did Latin American/Ballroom/Disco Dancing as a child and wore such outfits, but I'm not the type of person that people seem to think becomes of such clothing. Whether or not it's a good idea for younger children is something to think about though, obviously.

Also, although there are kids like Honey Boo Boo (and family) there are also mums on T&T that are the polar opposite, and their kids still do well.. Just because everyone else seems to be going over the top doesn't mean you have to.
People also like to forget that the "sexy" dresses and tons of makeup are part of Glitz pageants, which are known for over sexuallization, while normal pageants actually go on personality & talent as well as looks as they often have a talent round instead of the "outfit of choice". :)

(Kids often get marked down if they have tons of makeup and flippers (teeth thingies) while in Glitz pageants they get marked down if they don't have these)

Forehead slappery, Eaten. I mean really, what is the distinction, by your lights, between drama and pageants? You say one is more fun that the other. Why?

If you had a son would you enter him into a pageant? Or would you think it was fucking ridiculous?

I was a girly girl who loved dancing and performing. I loved my little dance group when I was aged 10/11.
When I was 13 I joined a 'cooler' dance group with my friends. I thought I was good and loved it. Until we had to perform at a festival in town. The dance teacher took me to one side and told me I needed to get better, learn to keep my head up and smile properly.

Totally destroyed my confidence and I can still feel that hurt now.

I don't have DD's but I would avoid anything like pageants or dance groups like the plague if I did.

Forhead slappery, Kleptronic I said it wont necessarily be as fun for them. Some kids might like drama but not pageants, some might like pageants but not drama.. I thought it was obvious what I meant but clearly it wasn't.

(To clarify; sporty kids might find football more fun than rugby but it doesn't mean that they're not into sports/energetic)

Yabu. I think you have enough responses to understand.

nametakenagain surely it's the reasoning not the number of responses that matters? If 50 people said "YABU becaue you're a horse" and one said otherwise, that doesn't make the majority right

I'm sure you know what's best for your DDs?? I haven't read the whole thread as i can guess as to whats been said...if you want them to take part in pageants, and they enjoy it, then let them, if they don't, then....erm don't.