To encourage my girls to do pageants?

[Sparklymommy]

Ok, sure I am going to be blasted here, however:

I am in the UK, where the pageant scene isn't nearly as bad as it is in the USA. My daughters WANT to compete and ooze confidence and stage presence. They both already perform in dance festivals and talent shows and love the whole dressing up, being beautified thing. My eldest is 10, my youngest 4 next month.

I would never "expect" them to win, or put pressure on them if they didn't do well. I am not into "sexualising" them or turning them into mini adults I just think they would enjoy the experience and it would be good for them.

I would go one step further, op and say that if your DD wants to dance professionally that she never ever mentions the pageants!!!

To be taken seriously as an artist you must show that you take yourself seriously. And taking part in pageants is the polar opposite of that.

OP, from the first line of your first post you knew what replies you would get by posting this.

You cant get all defensive when you know what the majority of the replies will be.

Each to their own and if you feel that the pageants are what your dd's want to do, then no matter what any here says, you will go ahead and do it. Just be sure that is what they want and not what you want.

Iagree with worra and ginger. My dd never showed any interest in dressing up as a princess. If she had wanted to , she could have. She did have a box full of dressing up things and did like to dress up as a pirate, or a Roman, policewoman (or man possibly), fireman. When I was a girl I never dressed up as a princess either. I did have a cowgirl outfit with holster and a toy revolver, I remember that and I remember pretending to be a teacher and teaching my cuddly toys.

My dd would have hated to be made up to look "pretty" in the sense of wearing foundation, blusher, eyeliner, nailpolish. She did like having her face made up to look like a liion or just soon crazy pattern..

However my dd might be unusual and maybe a lot of girls do genuinely love being made up and also dressing as princesses in long gowns and with tiaras. I bet they would also enjoy dressing as a doctor and playing that role or a cook with a high hat and apron too though. It is about make believe and play. I don't think pageants are like that at all. Everything is done to the dc, chosen by adults, directed by adults and assessed by adults so it isn't play.

I am not blasting you but go and have a good look at a couple of pageants first-hand before you enter your dds would be my advice. And if there is such a thing as a pageant forum, browse it for people posting about problems so you know what to expect. I really wouldn't do it but you seem set on it so check first what you are getting into. I think it is very different to a carnival.

Thanks for coming back to defend (brave!!), it's good food for thought.
The fact that there is such a vibrant lively pageant "scene" suggests that many UK parents think like you & find it all perfectly acceptable. Again, MN is not like real life.

Brownie sashes: they do specific tasks to complete and they get one small badge as a marker of their achievement which goes on a stiff ugly brown shoulder badge, is that what pageant sashes are like? I thought it was just a pretty piece of ribbon?

I agree with those who say don't ask the AIBU question here. Trust your own judgement.

You know your DDs can do charity work without doing pageants don't you? In fact they could do more fundraising in all that time they would have spent being 'beautified'.

If this is real, I think you need to find a better dance class for your DDs, one that is actually focused on dance, not competition. Pretty girls with "long necks and good turnout" will get nowhere in the dance world if they have no rhythm or balance, and cannot co-operate with other dancers in a scene.

Pageants don't encourage any valuable skills - "beauty" and "charm" aka "personality" are not skills, they are random attributes. They also pit girls against one another and are unlikely to promote friendship. I cannot see any value in them.

You are doing your children a real disservice.

I suggest you examine your own motivations thwarted ambitions and allow your daughters to have a childhood.

What are they going to be like when they are older?

DD is in year 8 (ages 12 & 13). A couple of girls in her class did the beauty queen thing and modelling when they were younger. They are insufferable and all "me me me". They are a pain in class - disruptive and full of their self importance. They also think that they don't need to be educated and have been on report/excluded recently.

Do you want your daughters to end up like this?

OP - "AIBU?"
MN - "YABU"
OP - "No I'm not!"
MN "FFS why ask then?"
OP - takes offence and deploys defensive tactics.

I never get why anyone posts in AIBU unless they are willing to be told they are being unreasonable and learn from it! OP if ou are so right in your judgement, why ask?

I love pageants. Toddlers & tiaras was most addictive on mat leave.

" I actually think its abusive to not listen to what a child wants"

listening to your child is all very well; thinking you have to act upon their every wish without intervening as an adult who has the benefit of sound judgement is altogether a different thing.

FWIW, the teacher who runs our dance class is not what anyone could consider to be a beauty queen / backing dancer type. She is very large for what is a physical job and doesn't exactly dress like a prima ballerina. She has however got superb technical skills, the ability to teach and incredible grace (despite her q significant weight, she's light as a feather when she moves). That's the sort of dance class you want to find.

She is not as skinny as a lot of the girls she dances with but she is not fat either. We also found, when we went through her wardrobe that most her clothes were age 6-8 and so have been shopping for new ones! She is 10 after all! This is terrifying. Hello eating disorder.

DD dances. She is two. We started because it is a way of getting out some of her energy, try to teach her a tiny amount of discipline and my friend who also has a two year old her friend goes. She quite likes it, it's fun. I doubt she'll be doing it in two years.

The room is full of ex-dancers. Desperate to be thin, desperate for their children to be thin. All the children dressed in home-made dance outfits except DD and her friend. The worst is one mother who is all teeth smiles and lovely except when the mask slips. Her DD clearly does not want to be there. Cries every week and when she does... I once caught her DM, at the end of the room, she didn't know I was there, with her claw hand wrapped around her DD's upper arm hissing at her. When she saw me, back to teeth smiles.

Don't you worry that some filthy pervert peadophile is eyeing up your DDs? Now that may sound reactionary and OTT, but is it? When i look at the costumes and the "tastefully applied stage make up" that my Cousin's DD wears (she is a year older than my 7yo) it makes my stomach turn - and the poses - bottoms and chests out, totally provocative - its sick and i think it should be banned if im honest.

Oh and yes my DD plays at princesses, although she is, thankfully growing out of that now and prefers play fighting with her dad oh and being amy from doctor who.

Oh and yes, the amount of mothers who do it because they dream about britains got no talent for themselves, its sad.

My DD doesn't have a competitive bone in her body, thank the lord!

OP, whenever I see the pageant mothers , albeit on some documentary, they do not come across well. They seem to need their DDs to win in order to validate themselves. They live vicariously through their trussed up DDs and it seems so so wrong.

There are so many other things you could be doing with them.

All these replies remind me just why I love MN so much and wouldn't be seen dead on Netmums :)

Most of the time you can tell which child an adjudicator will pick before they have even danced. The skinny one with good turnout and a long neck. Ballet is still rather rigid when it comes to being a certain shape, unfortunately, I'll give you that. But turnout you can work on, and as a jazz/lyrical/tap/more or less any other type of dancer, it really is far more about being a good performer and having good technique than it is about being the 'right shape'.

What confuses me is that you say you like the fact that there are more prizes going in pageants, yet that children need to learn that they won't all get picked all the time. It's either one or the other, do you want your children in an environment in which you think they will 'win' more (for all the wrong reasons) or to learn that they can't be winners every time?

Oh this is all pretty sad.

My DD is 10 and wants to perform with a passion. So we let her take classes in all sorts of stuff - ballet, dance, acting, singing..
she also loves gym and does that too.
Her desire to have the spotlight is a weird thing for me and I have thought long and hard about the extent to which I support rather than indulge it.

She wants to perform to display a talent, a skill, the results of her hard work and learning. Not to be the prettiest or display the best personality both of which have nothing to do with talent and everything to do with putting on a plastic persona to ingratiate yourself with the judges.

I would not let her do a pageant for the same reason I would not ever tolerate her doing x-factor or big brother. They are trite , superficial lowest common denominator excercises in d-list celebrity culture.

I would have thought 'pageantry' would be looked down on in professional performing circles. I can't imagine talented artists would like that this shit is seen as the same sort of thing at all.

If my dd wanted to make a career in performing arts, I'd keep her well away from these lovely little 'personality competitions' beauty competitions in weird wee outfits

How do they know that they want to unless you've introduced the idea? I'd urge you to consider whether you want your daughters comparing their appearance to others', judging people on their beauty, and being judged themselves, becoming fixed on imperfections.

I would encourage their abilities and talents. Being dressed up like a christmas tree and paraded around for show, like prize bulls, isn't good for them in any way.

YABU.

MrsBungle I can't speak for the pageant circuit itself, but where I grew up some of the smaller dance competitions had a pageant element. The better regarded dance studios (who were producing professional dancers and choreographers) wouldn't touch the pageant included competitions with a barge pole.

don't want to out myself here, but this morning i heard that three of the boys in my eleven year olds class had announced which girl they thought was they 'ugliest'. ALL of the girls linked arms and went over to the 3 boys and emptied their school bags in the playground. Shook out every last pencil book bag lunch bag drink bottle, stray piece of art work. All tipped out on the ground. I hear the teacher had words but I congratulated my dd on not being drawn in to a competition that no girl in the class had chosen to enter. I said to her good for ye for sticking together like that. Don't let th eboys grade you. The nerve of them! I am proud of them for STICKING TOGETHER LIKE THAT. they wouldn't tolerate being graded and they dealt with it in their own way. Even though the teacher told them off

anyway, they are a sporty active bunch. it would be a different story if they were all encouraged to be princesses. there'd be tears and the 'ugly' one (whoever that is, I don't know) would be in therapy.

The whole idea makes me want to gyp to be honest.

I must be an abusive mother. My child has wanted to stay at the funfair until eleven. I have said no.
She has wanted to go into the city on her own at ten. I said no.
Now she wants to go to the pub on a Friday night. She's sixteen and I'm still saying no.
Call social services, quick!

What Dawndonna said.

We don't let our young children do things that are physically dangerous/damaging, just because they want to.

So why would you let them do something that could be dangerous/damaging to their emotional well-being and self-esteem?