Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Accepting a caution while training to be a nurse

369 replies

burntoutteacher · 14/05/2013 21:42

This is a really brief synopsis, hope you guys can help.

My friend is training to be a nurse. Her mentally abusive ex has been harassing her via the authorities since they split. In 18 months he has taken her to court for access (Confusedbut doesn't show up ), and reported her to SS and she had to be interviewed twice. He won't work officially but does have jobs on the quiet, doesn't pay towards the children either.

Foolishly, she approached him at his place of work 6 months ago and argued with him over money. He started pushing her out of the shop and she lashed out and hit him across the chest. He called the police and wants her prosecuted. She has begged him not to, given the effect it will have on her career and the children, but he just laughed.

Police want to caution her instead but my understanding is that it will remain on her file for 100 years and will be just as damaging for her career. She has to sign the caution tomorrow and is devastated.

Is there anything at all she can do? Police have apparently tried to reason with him but he said he feels victimised ( don't get me started on that) and so she is to be cautioned.

She feels the career she tried so hard for is about to be shattered and he will then find new ways of beating her down. Please help:/

OP posts:
SusanneLinder · 15/05/2013 14:57

You have to be charged with something before the police would be mentioning a caution. She would have to have been charged with an offence before they could look at CCTV.The police do not go around suggesting cautions to people that are innocent and havent been charged with anything. Confused

So in order for there to be a caution mentioned, she MUST have been charged. I know this as a family friend had something similar.In fact just read that you said that she was interviewed by police on tape. so she has been CHARGED, she hasnt been convicted yet.Please underrstand the difference sighs.

if you have ever been CHARGED with an offence or have any prosecutions pending, she had a DUTY to let her Uni know at ONCE.It quite clearly SAYS so.

www.nmc-uk.org/.../NMC-Guidance-on-professional-conduct-for-nursin...‎

My DH is a qualified nurse, and my DD is a student, and it says in their employment and student contracts.It will be up to the Uni whether they sign her off with her Fitness to Practice.

This is whether she accepts the caution or not.If she does, then she has admitted guilt

CelticPromise · 15/05/2013 14:59

Nonsense Susanne a caution is an alternative to a charge.

CelticPromise · 15/05/2013 15:06

I know this as I am a criminal defence lawyer.Wink

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 15:15

Susanne she hasn't been charged with anything, and I don't know why you're shouting (obviously exasperated that my friend has the cheek to not want the book thrown at her)
Everyone, you've been amazing.

Here is the update as of 3pm.

After my friend got out of her hospital appointment at 2pm, she decided to give it one last shot and went to the actual pps office. She asked to speak to the head guy, and he agreed to see her, unbelievably. She explained everything and what it would do to her career and children. He was aware of the case, but not about what ex has been doing to her. He said that he was disappointed ex had rejected restorative justice etc. He told her he wouldn't make her sign it today, and she was to arm herself with as much information and documentation as possible regarding the damage it would cause her prospects. He also said that he would do as much as he could but couldn't promise anything.

OP posts:
SusanneLinder · 15/05/2013 15:16

Nonsense Susanne a caution is an alternative to a charge.

FFS!!!! A caution is an alternative to a CONVICTION www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights/when-youre-arrested.

  1. You are suspected of committing a crime
2.You get arrested and read your rights 3.You can be charged, either at bar in Police station or at home 4 A charge does NOT mean you have been convicted of a thing 5 Charges can be dropped 6 In this case, they are not dropping charges as they want to proceed with caution. 7 My DH was CHARGED years ago-charges were dropped (mistaken identity). Never showed up in a CRB check or the new one they do now as he was not CONVICTED!!!!!!

You lot obviously have not watched "The Bill" :o

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 15:17

I think it sounds good though? Would others agree?Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 15:18

Susanne does it matter? Why does it matter so much to you?

OP posts:
Woodenpeg · 15/05/2013 15:18

Awful bastard. (If the gender was switched, evil bitch.) Spite is a awful thing... I can't even begin to imagine how shit she feels, and how high and mighty he feels!

I hope for good news OP. I do, really.

IrritatingInfinity · 15/05/2013 15:19

This thread is a damn site better than the bill. It really informative. I really don't think people, especially youngsters realise how damaging a caution can be.

SusanneLinder · 15/05/2013 15:21

Susanne she hasn't been charged with anything, and I don't know why you're shouting (obviously exasperated that my friend has the cheek to not want the book thrown at her)

I am not shouting at all.Why would you think I care whether your friend is a nurse at all? I just think there is something not quite right with any of this. If she has not been charged with any offence, why is she cooperating with the police at all, or even considering accepting a caution?????

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 15:22

This thread has been AMAZING because I have relayed everything on here to her. Without it she would have signed that feckin' thing at 3pm and watched from the sidelines as he took yet something else away from her. I appreciate that it hasn't always been easy to advise me as some facts were confusing, but my friend is in a whole mess over this, and has been easy to confuse if that makes sense.

'Watching The Bill' my arse.

OP posts:
Pilgit · 15/05/2013 15:23

if he's working illegally i sincerely hope she's shopped him for benefit fraud. nothing helpful to add but this really boils my piss. utter fuckwit.

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 15:24

Remarkably, she informed the DSS that he was works full time hours while claiming benefits. They didn't do a damn thing. Confused

OP posts:
SusanneLinder · 15/05/2013 15:25

Susanne does it matter? Why does it matter so much to you?

I couldnt give a flying fanny fart actually. I was actually trying to establish if she had actually been arrested and charged, and why she would even consider accepting a caution.

SusanneLinder · 15/05/2013 15:26

'Watching The Bill' my arse.

Sense of humour bypass.Calm down love! :o

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 15:26

' I couldn't give a flying fanny fart'

Good, glad that's settled then.

OP posts:
CelticPromise · 15/05/2013 15:27

Susanne. I do this for a living. A police investigation can end with no further action, a charge, or a caution. It's possible to be referred back to police after charge for a caution but it's not common. She has not been charged. You're wrong.

Woodenpeg · 15/05/2013 15:28

xpost!

Get her to gather everything she can to prove his behaviour, and hopefully it will all turn out the best for everyone...

My friend works for the NHS, she's amazing at her job. Caring, compasionate and loves it... She turned on someone once who's been bullying her for YEARS; mugged her when we were still at school and broke her cheekbone. The bully saw her years later and basically tried to do the same... goading and belittling etc. My friend snapped.

It would be a sad day for the NHS if that meant she couldn't work doing the job she was meant to do... for one, utterly out of character, lapse in judgement...

MomsNetCurtains · 15/05/2013 15:33

Yay for MN!!!!!!!! I love seeing things like this on here when professionals assist others out of pure goodness. Well done to the various pros who helped. Hope all goes well OP

SusanneLinder · 15/05/2013 15:34

Susanne. I do this for a living. A police investigation can end with no further action, a charge, or a caution. It's possible to be referred back to police after charge for a caution but it's not common. She has not been charged. You're wrong.

Hmm must be different darn south then.:o What happens here is that you would be charged and then it goes to Procurator Fiscal and they decide whether to proceed, but would still be charged.

I was joking about the Bill.It was trying to lighten mood.It obviously went over some people's fluffy little heads

NKffffffffabeee2d7X127640abcce · 15/05/2013 15:37

Just on the 'spent' issue - yes the period is longer for a conviction than a caution. However on an enhanced DBS check spent convictions are still shown - enhanced checks are used for professions like nursing. So she will still need to declare it when applying for jobs; in theory the employer should take into account that it's spent, in practice it will be a matter of luck who the manager taking the decision is and what their views are.

I think the latest development does sound hopeful. I agree that she should take whatever evidence she has of the Ex's behaviour, but if she can also show that she has reflected on the issue and taken action about what she did - for example, anger management, counselling or practical measures to keep away from him - that might also be useful. Good luck to her!

Beeyump · 15/05/2013 15:39

I second that, MomsNetCurtains !
Sighing at 'fluffy little heads' though. Rather unnecessary.

SusanneLinder · 15/05/2013 15:44

Ooo first Mumsnet kerfuffle in 2 years of being here!

Do I get a Tufty badge? Wink

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 15:46

Love MN Grin

She is going to show how she is working with woman's aid to arrange a contact centre for youngest child to keep him away from door. This will reduce conflict and further allegations. ( this how bad he is: he knows my friend is on placement in a different town, and as court order says child is to be made available to him at xxx time, he will only accept child from her mum. He said if anyone else does the handover, he will not attend for contact and then take her back to court for breach of contact order. He said he will explain to the judge that he receives abuse and harassment from other family members and will have police reports to support that. The man is out to get her so badly, I tell you)

Anyway, she is going to try as hard as she can to gather as much evidence as possible. The pps haven't promised but it is sounding more hopeful than this mornGrin

OP posts:
Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 15:48

*her mum as in my friend, knowing full well she would not be able to attend placement if he will only accept child from her.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread