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Original poster

Accepting a caution while training to be a nurse

369 replies

burntoutteacher · 14/05/2013 21:42

This is a really brief synopsis, hope you guys can help.

My friend is training to be a nurse. Her mentally abusive ex has been harassing her via the authorities since they split. In 18 months he has taken her to court for access (Confusedbut doesn't show up ), and reported her to SS and she had to be interviewed twice. He won't work officially but does have jobs on the quiet, doesn't pay towards the children either.

Foolishly, she approached him at his place of work 6 months ago and argued with him over money. He started pushing her out of the shop and she lashed out and hit him across the chest. He called the police and wants her prosecuted. She has begged him not to, given the effect it will have on her career and the children, but he just laughed.

Police want to caution her instead but my understanding is that it will remain on her file for 100 years and will be just as damaging for her career. She has to sign the caution tomorrow and is devastated.

Is there anything at all she can do? Police have apparently tried to reason with him but he said he feels victimised ( don't get me started on that) and so she is to be cautioned.

She feels the career she tried so hard for is about to be shattered and he will then find new ways of beating her down. Please help:/

OP posts:
ThatVikRinA22 · 16/05/2013 14:14

very very quick - i will be back much later - it is doubtful that its s42.

your friend is very very confused. She needs an advocate with her and she needs to sit down with a solicitor and write things down.

its not going to be a s42 - unless laws are very different over in NI....

its getting very messy because the ifno you and your mate are giving isnt accurate.

get the facts - then post back or pm me.

and yes - i use text from my works phone to keep a victim updated. not a suspect though.

none of htis is adding up and i think your friend is very very confused.

xtyz · 16/05/2013 14:24

Interesting re. text messages, had no idea but makes sense! I can't even remember the last time I had any dealings with the police so I am very out of touch! Sorry to derail.

diddl · 16/05/2013 14:33

Why would what her sister did have any bearing on her being cautioned?

SerBrienne · 16/05/2013 14:34

Is there any point trying to get hold of the video and having it lip-read? Maybe what he was saying to her was so disgusting it will help in some way.

TheFallenNinja · 16/05/2013 14:37

I'm just really marking my place here. I'm drawn by how there are subtle discrepancies throughout. I'd really like to find out what the outcome is.

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 16/05/2013 15:03

Yeah could try that re the video. I am also interested to see if the footage would show him working longer hours than he is allowed.

What discrepancies?

OP posts:
Original poster
burntoutteacher · 16/05/2013 15:04

Because ex filed another complaint about sister verbally berating him and said it was further evidence of harassment. Police said that they had to act on that and that it didn't help her case at all?

OP posts:
diddl · 16/05/2013 15:17

But it's two separate things, isn't it?

I thought that they wanted her to accept a caution for assault?

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 16/05/2013 15:30

That's exactly what I said, friend said the police now have to act as ex is insisting she is cautioned. Can that be true? Can ex do that?

OP posts:
diddl · 16/05/2013 15:40

I've no idea, sorry.

Doesn't seem to make any sense though, does it?

diddl · 16/05/2013 15:42

It seems to me that it's as it always was-he wants to press charges against her.

So she accepts a caution or goes to court-that hasn't changed, has it?

wigglesrock · 16/05/2013 15:45

Does the 6 month statute not just apply from when the incident happened to when the person is reported or charged. The initial offer of caution which your friend refused did fall within the 6 months? What's happening now is a continuation.

The PSNI may have recommended that no further action be taken but it is PPS who have the final decision. Before Patten reforms in NI it was the then RUC that decided.

The police may not wish to proceed but the PPS have already offered the caution. They are usually reluctant to go back on a decision but it is not unheard of.

Section 42 in NI was substituted by Section 23 but it's the same thing.

threerings · 16/05/2013 15:53

Burnt, I really feel for your friend this is a shit situation to be put in by a complete fuckwit, I had one of the same, trying to destroy me, Bore off..
She must show willing to the family court and go with a contact centre, that way it,s his problem if he doesn,t turn up there as she has followed any court order and made the child availiable for contact at that time. so she is not in breach.
I work as a carer and not proud of what I did in the past but I have two cautions and was terrified of not getting the job re CRB check.
One caution is for Assault by way of Beating ( Girl tussle in a pub, very asahamed).
I did declare on the application and in interview explained what had happened before CRB check came back. I got the job to my surprise and I think that it maybe that I had no convictions/cautions in regards to vulnerable adults or children against me. Her ex is not a VULNERABLE adult or child, When this happened, Just a giant Bellend...
I see that your friend is looking to work with pallative care patients and I think this could be classed as vulnerable adult/children. I to work with pallative patients but my employer gave me a chance. Hope it helps somewhat that there maybe light on this for her.

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 16/05/2013 15:57

That's exactly what I said, friend said the police now have to act as ex is insisting she is cautioned. Can that be true? Can ex do that?

OP posts:
Original poster
burntoutteacher · 16/05/2013 16:03

Sorry again for repeat post, bloody phone.

That's really great news that your employer gave you a chance, I'll tell herGrin

Wiggles, thanks for that, really good info and helps to explain stuff that neither myself or friend are doing a particularly good job of explaining Grin

The case does seem to be that the pps were pushing for the caution and it was the police (psni) who didn't want it to happen as such ( friend keeps saying how good police have been with her). The situation now though is that she approached the pps directly and begged them to reconsider, which they are doing. She has two weeks to gather enough info to support her case as to why they should drop it.

OP posts:
RootinTootin · 16/05/2013 16:08

He can say that he wants to press charge, he can't however specify the punishment. That's up to the courts.

Accepting the caution stops it getting to the courts as she will have admitted guilt and taken her "punishment" in one fell swoop.

Tell them to stick the caution up their arses.

quietlysuggests · 16/05/2013 16:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jacks365 · 16/05/2013 16:13

No the ex cant do that. It is not his choice. The decision to prosecute rests solely with the pps but the ex could be making a nuisance of himself and they may want to shut him up.

Your friends best hope now is to provide the pps with all the mitigating factors ie the abuse she has suffered from him. If she has any texts or emails from him making threats it should help.

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 16/05/2013 16:47

Thanks all. She has barely any written evidence as she doesn't email (I know, Shock) and hasn't kept many texts. Seems incredulous but she just isn't that way inclined and doesn't tend to predict his motives very well.
He on the other hand will have lots of texts from her where she has insulted him for his behaviour (not great I know, but they insulted each other)

She has written a list today based on everything I've told her on this thread, and is in the process of gathering all the evidence she can. (For example she contacted WA and they are writing her a letter of support as is her doctor) she also rang RCN and asked her to write a letter detailing what will happen if she is cautioned but they just directed her to the website and were shirty with her again (which makes me wonder what her bloody union fees are for)

Jacks , by all accounts ex is pushing police and it may well be that they want to shut him up. Seems he has legal aid on tap and fires off letters left and right (latest one being the sister threatening litigation!)
Does anyone know if he will have sent a sols letter to the police as well? (Or is that a bridge too far?)

The sol she rang this morn was another firm where she just wanted to make a preliminary enquiry as to whether current sol was being a lazy arse. New sol (well, she hasn't instructed him, he just gave her a free phonecall ifyswim) told her that she was lucky the pps are reviewing it and count her blessings basically.

OP posts:
Original poster
burntoutteacher · 16/05/2013 16:53

Guys, would a statement from her sis and mum help? He always demands to know where friend is when he collects child, as well as who she is with and 'who's she running with now? When he was told she was on placement in xyz town, he mouthed off about the child being palmed off with everyone. (Hence the starting point of the spat between him and sister)

OP posts:
wigglesrock · 16/05/2013 17:17

I would keep her family well and truly out of it. They will not help. Whilst I think the letter to PPS is a long shot, it may make a difference. But a caution is the usually the best outcome, she doesn't want to be telling anyone to stick anything anywhere.

In most cases anyone in this position would thank fuck all they got was a caution, she doesn't want a conviction for common assault against the father of her children especially if he's a manipulative cunt.

The problem with the caution I'd the affect it may have on her career, but whether that will sway the PPS is extremely hard to call.

jacks365 · 16/05/2013 17:18

One or two things you've just said are starting to add up. If he has all the evidence of her being abusive towards him and she has nothing to counter then they are likely to prosecute as a more serious crime due to domestic violence. If he is claiming harassment from her it will make her situation worse.

In regards to her job the caution will show up the same on a standard or enhanced check. She needs to go in and talk to an advisor at the college not ring up and get a realistic view of things from them. With the additional information she needs to seriously consider her future.

kungfupannda · 16/05/2013 18:08

I honestly don't think this thread is going to be of any assistance whatsoever to your friend, OP.

There is such a vast amount of stuff that makes no sense whatsoever, even allowing for NI having a slightly different system, that I'm afraid your friend is either hopelessly confused or not giving you accurate information.

I've dealt with clients who are so upset that they seem to edit out everything that they don't want to hear. I once said to a client that I would speak to the prosecutor to see if there was any chance of the case being dropped, but that I had almost no hope of succeeding. She immediately got her phone out and called her mum and said "The solicitor says the case will be dropped" with me going "NO! I absolutely did NOT say that."

Is there any possibility that she's in such a state that she's got herself so worked up that she can't actually process the information properly?

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 16/05/2013 18:12

Thanks both, it's a long shot I agree. The idea of her being done for domestic abuse against him is beyond awful after what he's put her through. Confused
I understand though what you're saying.

Fingers crossed it all works out. I'll update

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Original poster
burntoutteacher · 16/05/2013 18:14

Kung, there is a possibility, but what is it exactly that doesn't stack up and I'll see if its perhaps the way I've explained it to you?

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