Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Accepting a caution while training to be a nurse

369 replies

burntoutteacher · 14/05/2013 21:42

This is a really brief synopsis, hope you guys can help.

My friend is training to be a nurse. Her mentally abusive ex has been harassing her via the authorities since they split. In 18 months he has taken her to court for access (Confusedbut doesn't show up ), and reported her to SS and she had to be interviewed twice. He won't work officially but does have jobs on the quiet, doesn't pay towards the children either.

Foolishly, she approached him at his place of work 6 months ago and argued with him over money. He started pushing her out of the shop and she lashed out and hit him across the chest. He called the police and wants her prosecuted. She has begged him not to, given the effect it will have on her career and the children, but he just laughed.

Police want to caution her instead but my understanding is that it will remain on her file for 100 years and will be just as damaging for her career. She has to sign the caution tomorrow and is devastated.

Is there anything at all she can do? Police have apparently tried to reason with him but he said he feels victimised ( don't get me started on that) and so she is to be cautioned.

She feels the career she tried so hard for is about to be shattered and he will then find new ways of beating her down. Please help:/

OP posts:
Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 11:42

She said she appealed the caution? ( she must mean she refused to sign it)

OP posts:
CajaDeLaMemoria · 15/05/2013 13:15

I presume she rejected the caution originally, then (it's usually sign it now or don't, you don't get much thinking time!) and due to her letter they've offered it again?

Has she spoken to the uni yet?

It's 1.15pm now, so if she hasn't heard back from her solicitor regarding extending the time (and it seems unlikely that she has any reason too?) she needs to be going to accept or reject it soon.

kungfupannda · 15/05/2013 13:16

I didn't say it was unbelievable that she would instruct a solicitor. It's unbelievable that any properly qualified solicitor would agree to liaise with the complainant in a matter under police investigation. It's also odd for a complainant to be represented.

Speaking to the police - yes. Speaking to the complainant or his representative - no.

If this is simply about her slapping his face then it is presumably a common assault, in which case there is generally a 6 month limit after which the matter will be barred from prosecution. If the police have let it run on beyond the 6 months then either someone has dropped the ball and they are trying to get her to accept a caution to get out of their mistake, or there is an awful lot more going on than your friend is telling you/understanding herself.

I can't imagine the 6 month time limit is an issue, otherwise any remotely competent solicitor would have picked up on it.

This is why I say that she needs to be very, very sure what exactly everyone is doing and why.

kungfupannda · 15/05/2013 13:17

Or she's accepted it without legal advice and is now trying to have it removed?

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 13:22

Caja, I've just got off the phone with her. She is at a loss to explain some facts in this case, so I'm struggling as well:

She was never arrested. They simply came to the house and was asked to write a statement. They then sent both hers and her ex's statements yo the pps and they advised a caution. All this took some time.
When she was informed that she was to be cautioned, that's when she started pleading with them to reconsider, so the police advised her to write to the pps, which she did. The officer in question was keeping in touch with her and said it was looking ok.
When ex and sister had the recent text spat, ex got in touch with police again and ramped up his demand for her to be prosecuted. Ex is aware of the effect said conviction will have on her as police told him, but he said he feels victimised and harassed so the police came back to her and said they have no choice now but to press ahead with caution.

As it now stands, she is waiting for her sol to ring her back as he said he might be able to convince police to give her more time. I'm unsure if this will work?
Either way, police have said they will prosecute her at 3pm if she refuses to sign. She doesn't want to ring university until sol gets back to her.

OP posts:
CajaDeLaMemoria · 15/05/2013 13:26

Why?

Either way, she's in the same position. Extra time doesn't change the situation, and I can't see why it would be granted, unless your friend isn't telling you something.

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 13:26

Kungfu, thanks a million for advice.

I agree it's confusing. My friend herself is desperately confused. I'm not sure if sol will indeed contact other side, but he did say he will contact police and ask for more time.
Sol mostly told her to calm down!

As this happened in August, are you saying there's a chance they can't prosecute her?? ( god that's giving me hope!)

OP posts:
kungfupannda · 15/05/2013 13:27

Is she sure it's a caution and not a first instance harassment warning?

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 13:27

Honesty caja, she isn't hiding anything from me. She is my best friend and is in pieces over this. She has no reason to hide anything.

The reason she thinks delaying it is because something might happen in between ( ex might agree to drop it?)

OP posts:
CajaDeLaMemoria · 15/05/2013 13:27

(Apologies if that sounded uncaring. It's not, I'm just looking at it from a solely legal perspective. She has less than an hour and a half now)

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 13:29

What's the difference kung? Would the warning show on her file?

The actual police woman called the R CN for her this morn for advice. It doesn't sound to me like they want to actually do this and keep saying they feel its unfair????

OP posts:
SusanneLinder · 15/05/2013 13:30

God RCN have just bollocked her on the phone and said she shouldn't even be on placement. This is dreadful

Er YEAH! She was supposed to tell the Uni when she was CHARGED! I know about innocent till proven guilty, but in the field of dealing with vulnerable people, a risk assessment has to be done

CajaDeLaMemoria · 15/05/2013 13:36

I didn't mean to imply that she was hiding things from you, just that she might be confused. It took me a long time to get my head around the process!

So she gave a statement at home, as did her ex.

I presume she was then arrested and interviewed on tape? And that was when she was offered the caution?

Susanne has a point, it may well be in her contract/T&C's that she needs to alert the university and placement if she is charged, but as there isn't much time left, it seems pointless worrying about that now.

kungfupannda · 15/05/2013 13:41

A first instance harassment warning is just that - a warning not to harass someone further. If I remember correctly, it has to be signed.

If someone continues with the harassment, the next time something happens they are likely to be charged because they've already had a warning.

It's not a conviction or caution and I don't know whether she'd have to declare it, but I would imagine it will show up on a CRB check.

I haven't come across one for years - probably because they are often used when people don't bother with a solicitor because it's fairly low level.

kungfupannda · 15/05/2013 13:42

She hasn't been charged yet, so if that is the point at which she has to notify the uni, she's fine at the moment.

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 13:42

Susanne. - She has told the uni that she is FACING a caution, they couldn't stop her going on placement because she hasn't had it yet, so she hasn't done anything wrong by being on placement!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 13:44

Caja yeah she was interviewed on tape after writing the statement.

OP posts:
FairyJen · 15/05/2013 13:54

I worked for the nhs - not as a nurse as a social worker.

I'm sorry to say but there are some jobs where you need to present yourself in a certain manner both in your personal life and professional.

When I was at uni we were warned several times about conduct rtc. Two people were kicked off the course because of photos displayed on Facebook showing them in an unacceptable light.

Whilst worded differently I agree with compo she shouldn't be allowed to work as a nurse with an assault caution or conviction. It shouldn't matter how far someone is pushed they shouldn't resort to violence. I'm fairly certain she would meet challenging patients and she would be able to strike them iyswim.

She fucked up quite simply. She may get away with it in court but I would still worry if she was my nurse or looking after a family member

themaltesecat · 15/05/2013 13:56

In her shoes, I'd not accept the caution.

slhilly · 15/05/2013 14:04

I think the most worrying thing to emerge in the last few hours is how confused your friend is. Can you help her by getting on the phone with her and her solicitor and finding out where things are up to? I have a feeling she's in such pieces that she's not listening very well. She needs some dispassionate help.

diddl · 15/05/2013 14:22

Yes-it sounds a mess all round, doesn't it?

He does sound an infuriating twat-but it also reads to me as if she went to his workplace with the intention of arguing!

But really-begrudging buying/contributing to his daughter's school uniform-what an arsehole.

Is she going to do anything about his illegal job or the fact that he pays nothing?

Original poster
burntoutteacher · 15/05/2013 14:39

My friend was so broke at the time she was buying the kids uniforms from a door to door salesman and 'paying up' for them at 5 pounds a week. They wouldn't be paid until the end of the academic year. She saw red, she snapped. She didn't go looking for a row. I promise you that.

OP posts:
babyhammock · 15/05/2013 14:46

This is awful :(
I honestly wouldn't accept the caution and would fight this.
It isn't in the public interest to prosecute her, and I just can't see the CPS thinking it is. Also it's clear from where he pays no child support and this will make it very hard for mum to support the child if she can't work, that he is being extremely vindictive.

Springdiva · 15/05/2013 14:54

Kungfu said because the stakes are lower and a caution is spent after 5 years as opposed to 7 for a conviction

Does this mean it is off the CRB check after that time.

Someone else said it stays on your CRB for 10 years. Or is it on for life like the would be police commissioner whose teenage offence showed up when he applied for the job.

This isn't really relevant now but just thinking of OP's future.

diddl · 15/05/2013 14:55

Yes, in effect he is punishing his daughter as well.

Is her sister being looked at for harrassment?