to think 'sod it' and just have a baby anyway?

[KentishWine]

We have no money, we live in a shit flat and I'm about to start a new job. It's a dreadful time to even be thinking about having a baby. But I'm 36 and the proverbial clock has been ticking for the last year. Its so bloody loud it's driving me insane. Our financial/housing situation won't improve until I'm at least 40. Not an ideal time to start trying for a baby (especially as my DM had an early menopause at 43). I want to do it now!

After rent, bills, debts etc, DH and I have about £500 left over each month for everything else. There's no way I can afford to be a SAHM, we'll both have to work FT so FT childcare is our only choice. This costs £1200 a month (London). We're short by £700! As far as I can work out, we're not eligable for tax credits etc as DH is subject to immigration control until 2015 (I'm British, he's Brazillian). We are eligable for £20/month child benefit, but that wouldn't even touch the sides.

It makes me so sad that we're too poor for a baby. By the time we're not too poor, it's likely to be too late. AIBU to just get pregnant and hope for the best? What's the worst that could happen?

One thing to note is even if your child has a full belly, a roof over their head, treats etc, they will take on the 'living pay check to pay check' stress you and DH feel and worry no matter how hard you try to hide it from them.

That wasn't me trying to be a downer, just telling you some of the things that I struggled with when times were 'good' for us.

My other question is what will you do if you have a disabled child?

Yes but again, Chunder, I was only going by what the OP said. She said she had had to sign a maintenance order . I presumed this was important as it was obviously something the OP was taking into consideration.

It was you who pointed out:

while you can claim tax credits in your own right, if your income is low enough for WTC or CTB you won't meet the maintenance requirements for when he needs to apply for ILR. That's because in order to sponsor a spouse, you need an income of £18,400 annually before tax, and you won't qualify for WTC with that.

If he did get his visa under the post July 2012 regime, you need to be very careful to make sure you can meet the maintenance requirements for when he applies for ILR in 2015. You can apply outside the Immigration Rules if necessary, but it's a colossal ballache.

Hardly ideal!

if I was 36 and wanted children, I wouldn't be sitting down with a calculator, I'd be getting straight on with it. Yanbu, it shouldn't wait until you're 40 or whenever it might be too late. Only you know the figures and the possibility of eg moving to a cheaper area etc. If you can make it work at all, then it will be worth the financial struggle imo. Good luck. x

OP - I would definitely look into the SAHD option. It would fit your circumstances perfectly.

My DH is SAHD and it has worked out well for us....all you need is a bloke willing to escape the 'bread winner' pigeon hole.

I agree with you IfNot

You won't find anywhere "cheap" with a good commute of around 1hr.

If you want low housing costs you have to be prepared to travel up to 2 hours each way and expect to pay around £5,000pa for the privilege.

It's only worth it if you earn good money.

With regards to whether it is cheaper to live in London or commute, for us it is still cheaper to commute.

For example a quick look on rightmove tells me that the cheapest rent for a 2 bed in my area is £595pm and my childcare is £600 p/m for 4 full days with a childminder (who is wonderful). Travel is £300 p/m. I also live on an expensive train line, and in quite an expensive town so there would be other places where could make bigger savings I think.

Thought some real numbers might help you compare!

Depends how much is a lot for rental. I pay £870 per month for a 2 bed house, garden etc with less than 1 hour commute to London. Places like Reading have 1/2 bedroom flats for around £600 in the city centre with less than an hour commute into Central London.

and a 1 bed which you are in now I think, is £525

A season ticket from Reading to London Paddington costs £3960 - £4704 if you add a zone 1-6 travelcard.

and I am 35 mins from London...

OP Id wait until you know if your DH can have ILTR, I think it would be very unwise and foolish to get pregnant before then. A friend of mine is currently having an nightmare trying to sort out his wifes ILTR, they have a baby born over here but she may have to go home, and naturally she wants to take the baby with her leaving him to potentially have to decide to go with her or stay here without his baby. he of course will go with her, but I know it will kill him to leave his elderly mother behind, and Im not sure their relationship will survive it in the long run.

So basically, housing, childcare and 2 lots of annual rail travel would be £1800 where I live. If your rent is more than £600pm at the moment then there are potential savings by considering a move (I haven't account for tube travel if that is necessary)

Sounds like the OPs husband being a SAHD is the solution.

I was told my husband might have to go back when his work visa ran out for three months (contract broken, then renewed) but in the end the immigration services really didn't care at all even we very honestly stupidly informed them, and we swapped onto a marital visa- and he didn't go anywhere. I do think if you marry someone from another country you have to consider you may have to live in their country and not yours. Chundarella has some excellent advice on this thread on the likelihood of this happening- having a baby may increase the chances of him staying, not decrease them.

OP: Genuine question. What will happen if your child is disabled and needs a carer?

I agree the likelihood of her DH having to go to his home country isn't very great, but its still a possibility, as I am seeing my friend experience.

curry - I love to read your posts.

It's not just that I agree with you (although I do), it that you manage to clarify in my mind things I have been thinking anyway.

To me this sums up the snottily materialistic, mindlessly quasi-moralistic ("quasi"- and mindless, because relating to things that are actually morally neutral, but treating them as things that have ethical value) attitude that I find most obnoxious about mumsnet, and increasingly, the culture at large. It is a sly and stupid way of allowing oneself to despise people instead of thinking empathetically. It's a form of ethical, social, and emotional laziness and selfishness, and it is vile.

This is brilliant :)

Kentish - I'm more than happy for my taxes to be spent helping a couple like you to have a family.

I would caution against the idea of your DH being a SAHD. If he is not working he will be reliant on you to an unhealthy degree (IMO).

I really hope you can make it work. :)

OP: Genuine question. What will happen if your child is disabled and needs a carer?

I guess the same as what I would have to do in this situation, make the best of it, one of them give up work, claim the benefits to which I was entitled or accept any help of offer. Be really very poor indeed. i certainly don't earn enough to privately employ a carer out of my usual salary, who does have that kind of money spare?

I think once you start going down the 'what if there was a real disaster' almost no-one should have children. Very few people's finances wouldn't be affected (in our current two working parent culture) by having a very dependent child who was disabled, or by being made redundant, being unemployed long-term, becoming disabled themselves, having a bad accident and so on.

If the Op is very worried about having a child with a disability, then the most obvious thing to do would be to lower the risk as much as is possible (given these things are not really in our control)- having a baby right now, and not when she's early forties or older is one way to lower that risk slightly (and something I have factored into my own decision-making when considering whether I could financially afford another child over 40).

Hm well you could just as easily say

"What if it's twins/triplets etc".
"What if you become disabled/die in childbirth".
"What if your DH becomes disabled/dies/shoots thru back to Brazil"?
"What if you have PND and can't work"?

If we all dwelt on the "What ifs" how many of us would have baby? We all know there are risks involved but we do it anyway, hoping for the best, knowing that the odds are in our favour.

The point is, even if everything goes well, the OP is going to have her work cut out making ends meet.

That's what she needs to concentrate on.

I know AThing, I kind of want it on a T-shirt!

Well as someone who was once pregnant with not a bean I say go for it. Worked out fine for us

It's not exactly a catchy slogan, but I'd wear that t-shirt IfNot :o

Op I think it's definitely worth looking at moving out of London. I'm Luton/beds area you can be in st pancreas within 35mins it's only 10 mins longer than if you were harpenden/st Albans and you get a lot more for your money.

I don't know if your dh being sahd is necessarily a good idea when the next 3 years are crucial to his career. If you moved somewhere bigger would you consider an au pair it would work out cheaper than a nursery and it wouldn't be as inconvenient if work over ran or your train broke down etc etc

Yes chund they have a solicitor who is hopefully going to be able to sort it, but he has been honest and said there is always the chance she won't get it.