flat snobs and bedroom tax!

[limetictacs]

I thought that with the housing benefit cap people would actually want to do a mutual exchange but I've been shocked at the amount of people who immediately go "no flats"- (we live in a 2 bed and are after a 3 bed house). One person even said that they needed a house as they had a dog (er- we have a young child and a baby on the way. Besides there are many other people who have dogs in the block!).

AIBU being pissed off that so many people are so snobbish about living in a flat? I'd like to add that these same people want to complain about having to pay for an extra room- some have actually complained to me and expect me to sympathise. It also pisses me off when people say they would move but there are no 2 bed properties available when there are way more people with 2 beds in my area than 3 beds. Aaaargh!

I have two kids in a second floor, 2 bed flat. Someone asked for the rules: in my area opposite sex children are entitled to a separate room when the oldest is ten, but you are only a medium priority so it could take a few years to get a three bedroom. Same sex children share whatever their age.

I don't know what the OP is moaning about, I have two kids in an upstairs flat with no lift and am still alive.

actually we looked at extremely lovely 2 bed flats like this www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38024269.html

we have a very good income and have lived all our adult lives in flats until recently. I am not keen on subsidising social houses when flats would be cheaper (unless disability/old age etc.).

Lol @ £800k for small flat.

London = fucked in the head

I lived in flats for years and given the choice would never live in one again reasons other people live in them, rubbish and their stuff in communal areas, noise, buzzers getting pressed all times of the night not for us, dumping of stuff in the communal bin areas, post going missing, smoking in the communal areas so it wafted in, not having a garden, not being able to hang washing out, parking issues, even though we had an allocated parking space there's always one person who parks like an idiot, maintenance charges, the worst thing was when gangs of guys moved in and they used to hang about outside drinking and "fixing" clapped out cars, then out went on fire and got burnt out

I can 100% agree that living in flats can be hell. However I can also agree with the OP in that people are very, very willing to dismiss a flat just because it isn't a "proper house". Finding a swap on Homeswapper when you live in a flat is a nightmare. I've been waiting two years now.

I would be fine with my upstairs two-bed if it weren't for issues that are specific to our situation. I would even be willing to move into another upstairs flat if I absolutely had to, I'm that desperate. But some people are just pickier, I guess, or are holding out for some sort of perfect ideal home that probably doesn't exist.

They aren't called flats anymore. They are apartments

Having lived in both flats and houses, I can fully understand people preferring houses.

But if I was in the OP's position, I'd probably also be getting a bit irritated at what appears to be able bodied adults refusing to consider her flat, when at the same time they're complaining about having to pay extra for their spare bedrooms.

Incidentally, are 3 bed flats really that easy to come by? Most flats in my area seem to be one or two bed - most of the larger flats I've seen advertised seem to be aimed at flat sharing students or professionals rather than families, in the private sector at least.

i wouldnt mind a flat if:

it was above a decent shop or one of those with a garage underneath.

had safe parking.

nothing on top or below. end of the shops, not in the middle.

had a terrace or something.

had the best studion type soundproofing going.

own entrance. (like my elderly friends)...I know, too many conditions but....

I live in a 2 bed flat with the added benefit of a third box room with no window that we use as an office.
It is a block of four, the bottom two with gardens and the upper two with huge balconies. We have beautiful views of the gordano valley to our right and the second severn crossing to our left.
We cannot hear our neighbours to the side (with 2 kids) and only occasionally hear the man upstairs if he walks around late at night before we have fallen asleep.
Sometimes we hear people entering the building or talking loudly in the hallway but its not enough to ever annoy us.

What does annoy me is when my 10 year old daughter gets laughed at at school for living in a 'tiny flat' when the kids doing the teasing live in 2 or 3 bed new builds on a huge estate. The houses are made of bloody cardboard, postage stamp gardens, no open spaces or lovely views, terrible congestion but have a desirable post code.

She now feels she is inferior to most of her class and hates telling people where she lives and I just cannot seem to get through to her that she has no reason to feel ashamed

Mind you, we do live in a snobby area so that probably explains some of the attitudes but I find it a bit ridiculous that people would prefer a cardboard house to our lovely flat!

living a in flat is so much more European and so much more cosmopolitan. it is very unworldly to think all flats are bad.

The English seem to prefer houses. However if you want the state to subsidise your housing I don't think people should have rights to veto flats as plenty of people with no housing benefit live in flats.

Re the £800k 2 bed above, my daughter's 1 bed just cost over £330k or something like that. There are such huge taxes on London. 1 bed London £10,000 stamp duty. 1 bed Scotland no stamp duty. It is a tax on those who move to find work and get on their bike rather than living off the state for life.

There are £330k flats in Scotland too you know:

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38098492.html

It's not only London that's plagued with overpriced housing. Although certainly the Southeast bears the great brunt of this invidious 'investment' speculation.

That's two bed so doesn't count. Stamp duty for first time buyers of one bed flats in London is an unfair tax on young people which is not applied in Scotland or other areas. We should abolish stamp duty and inheritance tax and allow more free markets.

Yeah. Cool. Let's abolish stamp duty and do everything else we can to keep house prices insanely high. Fuelling house price bubbles always works out really well o.O

Lol. The problem is London house prices are too fucking high.

The measly 10k of tax is nothing next to the 330k to buy the damn thing.

I think we need to get used to house prices being high. We are an island with a large population. Unless population fall dramatically, house prices won't.drop in London.

I disagree that we should get used to house prices being high. They are kept high. One of the main reasons is very low interest rates. Which can't last for ever. And there will be much weeping and wailing if they go up.

The population was high 15 years ago, but house prices weren't high then.

Lots of young people are being conned, told they are fabulously successful because they are earning £50k/year or whatever in London, but then they can't afford anywhere to live, and spend their lives paying rent to some property speculator. Would be better off on £25k/year in Leeds.

Big, big, con.

Unfortunately most people fall for it.

The house price issue is entirely caused by Governments not allowing a free market. I used to pay up to 12% interest as a young person. It was very very hard. There had been a tiny amount of tax relief on mortgage interest but that was almost worthless by then too or abolished. It was very hard. There was no state provision of childcare. There were no tax credits of any kind. House prices went up and down more than they do now. Now all Governments have decided that they need to prop up house prices to stay elected.

If base rate were not kept at 0.5% artificially prices would go down if there were less demand. We are a very popular country despite our problems so there tend to be more people looking here than in say Bulgaria.

I don't agree that young people are being conned. Many young people are pretty bright. They can make informed choices as to which towns are best for them and what they want in their life. They know perfectly well how much net pay you get after £50k a year and once your rent or mortgage is taken account of.

You could not always be better on £25k a year in Leeds and you may hnot want to live in Leeds. Some might but not all. If the potential is to earn £1m a year as an equity partner accountant at Ernst & Young and in Leeds nothing like that amount you may well be better off being worse off in London until your pay rises. Obviously if you will be on £50k for life that may not be the same calculation although for women plenty find rich men in London which are not so easy to find in Leeds to staying in London can be a route for them to live off male earnings for life, a life choice plenty of mumsnetters do take much though it is against my feminist principles.

Very few people will ever earn £1m/year. But I guess it is an effective carrot to motivate people while they pay their obscene rents/mortgages.

I don't think house prices are particularly more stable now than they have been in the past.

Xenia, you say you are in favour of a "free market" but then complain that when you were young there was no "state provision of childcare" or "tax credits or any kind", so are complaining that our government shouldn't intervene to provide affordable childcare or counteract poor private wages (which they should in my opinion). So, are you actually for "free markets" in everything, or just the things you fancy?

I actually agree that it is time to do something about the low base rate propping up high prices, but setting the base rate to something else is still an intervention - there is no "free market" as such, not in house prices, not in anything really - as far as I can see it's just a phrase people wheel out when they want to complain about one particular type of intervention.

Just my 2p worth but I live in South London in a 2 double bed maisonette with private garden, in a lovely area, I bought my flat for £175k and my mortgage is less than £800 a month. There was a family of 4 here before me.

It's not council, etc, but I am a bit 'hmmm' at stories of single people who earn £50k not being able to afford to buy somewhere to live in London. No, you can't buy a flat in a fashionable postcode. However it is less than an hour door to door to my work in central London, I can park outside my house, there's very low crime and I can always get home by public transport even at 4am. Most of my neighbours are young families or elderly people. It's a quiet neighbourhood and not ex-council or new build estate. These places do exist... however I am grateful I bought when the stamp duty was only on properties >£175k.

In response to the OP, yes I do believe people are snobby about flats, but not all flats are the same... there's lovely places like my flat which is officially a flat (it's on one level I spose!) and living on the Aylesbury estate... biiiig difference!

im a flat snob

dont really care what you make of that tbh! its my choice not to live in a flat... its got nothing to do with anyone else.

the bedroom tax doesnt affect us as we privately rent but i would never choose to live in a flat. dh and i are in a 2 bed, no children, no pets etc and we will continue to live in houses with 2 or more bedrooms with a garden etc whether we have children or pets in the future

When I lived on an estate I had some really great neighbours. I also had a few neighbours who could be quite nasty and intimidating. I was so grateful I didn't have to share a front door or communal landings or stairs with them! For me it's an intimidation issue.