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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

flat snobs and bedroom tax!

209 replies

limetictacs · 17/04/2013 19:13

I thought that with the housing benefit cap people would actually want to do a mutual exchange but I've been shocked at the amount of people who immediately go "no flats"- (we live in a 2 bed and are after a 3 bed house). One person even said that they needed a house as they had a dog (er- we have a young child and a baby on the way. Besides there are many other people who have dogs in the block!).

AIBU being pissed off that so many people are so snobbish about living in a flat? I'd like to add that these same people want to complain about having to pay for an extra room- some have actually complained to me and expect me to sympathise. It also pisses me off when people say they would move but there are no 2 bed properties available when there are way more people with 2 beds in my area than 3 beds. Aaaargh!

OP posts:
reneaa2 · 18/04/2013 10:00

op from your description of your flat it sounds very nice and I'm sure someone will be happy to swap in the future. If it wasn't in a nice area etc it would be less likely.

In the meantime is there anyway you can utilise your communal garden for your ds especially since you say you are somewhat housebound and are expecting a baby soon.

Especially with summer coming up maybe you can make use of the garden in other ways besides permanent play equipment. Maybe you could get a collection of balls, hoops, bucket and paintbrush for painting paths with water, pop up tent, watering can, bucket for collecting natural materials etc. This might help you make use if the garden while you wait for your preferred housing swap.

samandi · 18/04/2013 10:08

Private gardens are pleasant places for anyone, not just families.

Bogeyface · 18/04/2013 10:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MoodyDidIt · 18/04/2013 10:53

i know, what a disgusting post. and as if people have to choice to "just buy a place" FFS if she (or others in similar situations) COULD - they would!!

deliberately provocative some might say....

i feel sorry for the OP i think she is getting a hard time quite unfairly. and the poster who said she hoped she didn't get a swap, thats just mean and playground imo

MidniteScribbler · 18/04/2013 10:57

I don't think it's snobbery, it's about choice. If I fell on hard times, I would absolutely be prepared to take what I could get. No question about it. Whether it be a flat, or everyone sharing a room, or whatever. If it means the difference between sleeping in my car or living in a place that isn't to my liking, then I'd take whatever was offered. BUT I wouldn't voluntarily go in to a home that didn't suit my preferences if I didn't need to. I prefer houses, and I've based my lifestyle around living in a house (become a dog breeder, involved in dog sports which require a fair bit of yard space and equipment for training, etc). Going in to a flat now would be a major change in my lifestyle that I wouldn't consider unless I absolutely had no choice over. I'm not a snob about flats at all. I love visiting my friends who live in them and sometimes bemoan their views and nice outdoor balcony, lack of time needed to maintain a yard and less cleaning. But those properties suit their lifestyle choices, which are not the same ones I have made.

I think it is a big step to go from a house to a flat if you don't need to. You buy your kids play equipment, you buy a bbq, whatever. Would you voluntarily move back in to a flat with no outdoor space, if you didn't really need to? The exact reasons the OP is wanting to move out may be the same reasons that someone else doesn't want the property.

FasterStronger · 18/04/2013 10:59

Lime, no one is going to swap to 'help you out'. You need to be more realistic.

YoniMaroney · 18/04/2013 11:03

"No, FasterStronger. Tory voters are, of course, all owner-occupiers. "

Disproportionately, yes. Labour had a 23% lead among social tenants at the last election, but the Tories led all other classes of tenant, including private rented by at least 6%.

Targeting elderly council tenants is not a good way to shore up to Tory vote.

flowery · 18/04/2013 11:04

How is it snobbery? They don't have to swap with you. They prefer to either stay where they are, and presumably pay bedroom tax, or wait and hope a 2 bed house with a garden comes up. They prefer a house with a garden, as most people would, including you. That's not snobbery.

They may end up not finding a 2 bed house and having to pay bedroom tax, but I'm sure they've factored that risk into their decision, and that's up to them.

CecilyP · 18/04/2013 11:36

Sorry I am sounding like a cross-examining barrister there. I didn't mean it like that, I just meant could someone clarify the rules on this as i'm not sure and perhaps it varies from LA to LA. I hardly think you are a priority though.

The only rule is that 2 over 10s of the opposite sex (other than couples) should not share a bedroom. Different LA's will have different points systems though, and mine gives a couple of extra points to a brother and sister sharing a room once the older child reaches 5. It does not make a huge difference, but, if all other circumstances were the same, would put you ahead of a family with same sex children.

smilingthroughgrittedteeth · 18/04/2013 11:53

I don't think it's snobbery, I would hate to
live in a flat because I couldn't cope with the noise of people above or below me, I don't think that makes me a snob.

I do agree that if you are getting housing benefit and live in a council house then you should just be glad you have a roof over your head whether its a house or flat, if you don't like where your housed and you are fit and healthy then the answer is to work hard and rent privately like plenty of us do, dp and I struggle every month to
pay the bills and rent but thats life.

Imo council housing for life should apply to those that physically can't work for whatever reason, those that fall on hard times obviously need a safety net and of course should be adequately housed but I agree with the poster that said for 5 years, social housing should be available to help people get on their feet it should be a stepping stone not a lifestyle choice.

I rent privately there is me, dp, and regularly dsd (14) and dss (9) in a 2 bedroom house we plan on having a baby but due to finances won't be able to afford to move so accept that the 3 children will have to share a bedroom, fortunately the bedrooms are large so we have adapted the children's room by using a curtain to split in in half so dsd and dss both have privacy and we will put a baby in with us and hope that by the time the baby is old enough to need its own room that we can afford to move if not we will cope.

smilingthroughgrittedteeth · 18/04/2013 11:59

I would like to clarify having read that back that I didn't mean people in social housing don't work hard, when I said work hard I meant to get yourself into the type of house/area you want etc by taking on any jobs you can get, both dp and I work full time and take on any ad-hoc work we can get just to pay the bills.

williaminajetfighter · 18/04/2013 12:17

sorry but I stand by what I wrote. Some might consider the OP's post deliberately provocative because it is so obviously rude to those who have to struggle to get by in less-than-ideal private accommodation that they have to pay for themselves while the OP questions about whether she can upgrade to better housing.

I didn't make any comments about not having a job but not everyone in the country agrees with the level of govt intervention or spending in this country. As far as I understand it's called Mumsnet - a forum where Mums with different views come together - and not Socialistsnet.

ballroomblitz · 18/04/2013 12:22

I'm in the same situation as you OP, in a two bed flat wanting to swap three bed house. My flat is huge compared to most of the 3 bed houses round here, has it's own bit of outdoor space but still no-go. I don't qualify for a three bed until the eldest hits seven and they expect him and the baby to share a bedroom (no room for that). I'm down for two bed house but have zero points as they see it as I have a roof over my head, which in all honesty I think is fair enough.

I'm just going to move out of council housing and looking to private rent and will stump up the extra cash myself. I plan to start looking for work once she hits the nine month mark, in two months. Probably not the cleverest plan but I can't physically share a room with the baby much longer as I'm a light sleeper and she keeps me awake most of the night.

Bogeyface · 18/04/2013 12:31

the OP questions about whether she can upgrade to better housing.

Wrong.

She wants to swap accomodation with someone else for mutual benefit. At no point has she said that she expects a bigger house to just be handed to her on a plate. They want 2 beds, she wants 3, her gripe is that the people who refuse to consider a flat are the same ones moaning to her about the bedroom tax. Can you honestly not see how frustrating that must be?

FasterStronger · 18/04/2013 13:02

No, because in their mind, paying the bedroom tax is better than saving the money and swapping with the op.

give the people rejecting the ops home some credit- they know what they want, better than the op can think for them! they dont see the swap as mutually beneficial. The op cannot change their mind.

FasterStronger · 18/04/2013 13:04

Its like a poster complaining they cannot sell their overpriced house because the prospective buyers have the price wrong.

Bogeyface · 18/04/2013 13:45

No it isnt.

They are entitled to turn it down, but the OP is equally entitled to feel frustrated when the very same people are moaning at her about the tax.

Bogeyface · 18/04/2013 13:46

"I dont like A"

"Well have B then"

"I dont want B"

"So stop moaning!"

FasterStronger · 18/04/2013 13:47

Bf I agree the op can have a moan about people having a moan...

smilingthroughgrittedteeth · 18/04/2013 14:13

I agree she isn't being unreasonable to feel frustrated that people are moaning about having to pay the tax but don't want to swap with her because it's a flat but I do think she is unreasonable to say it's because they are snobs.

Bearbehind · 18/04/2013 15:25

I can see why people who have to now pay bedroom tax moan about it but don't want to move- they didn't have to pay it before and they are not gaining anything from paying it now.

People dont like things costing more than they did previously but it doesn't mean they'd rather give up what they have in order to avoid paying the charge.

These people want the extra space a 3 bed house gives them, OP wants the extra space- neither of them need it.

You can't expect your wants to be met just because you have decided to extend your family and would prefer not to have children sharing a room.

Bogeyface · 18/04/2013 16:41

Bear these are not people who want the space though, they want a swap to a 2 bed but are refusing the OP's swap based purely on it being a flat.

FasterStronger · 18/04/2013 17:05

they are not 'refusing' they just don't want to because in their opinion, it is not a good swap, which is really not a reason to judge them.

a 3 bed house is much better than a 2 bed flat upstairs, so why swap to save a little bit of money, if you can afford it?

Bearbehind · 18/04/2013 18:15

I agree faster a three bed house has advantages over a 2 bed flat for more reasons than just the extra bedroom- it's not a good swap for them.

OP might think its because it's a flat but there's probably more to it- they might be scared of those dreadfully dangerous concrete stairs too!

Unami · 18/04/2013 18:18

I'm another person who just doesn't get this accentuated preference for "houses" and not flats.

I'm used to living in flats in Scotland, where most people in the city have flats, including big families, it's just the norm. And as other posters have pointed out, people are happy to live in flats in Paris and Manhatten.

I just don't understand the apparent snobbery towards flats. Living in a poky wee semi-detached really doesn't make you better than anyone else - or even give you that much more space...

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