flat snobs and bedroom tax!

[limetictacs]

I thought that with the housing benefit cap people would actually want to do a mutual exchange but I've been shocked at the amount of people who immediately go "no flats"- (we live in a 2 bed and are after a 3 bed house). One person even said that they needed a house as they had a dog (er- we have a young child and a baby on the way. Besides there are many other people who have dogs in the block!).

AIBU being pissed off that so many people are so snobbish about living in a flat? I'd like to add that these same people want to complain about having to pay for an extra room- some have actually complained to me and expect me to sympathise. It also pisses me off when people say they would move but there are no 2 bed properties available when there are way more people with 2 beds in my area than 3 beds. Aaaargh!

Good evening Olivia - problemo

boxroom issue?

only joking about the boxroom

though it would be well funny if it were true....

Maybe OP wouldnt mind a three bed flat?

Come back Op and tell us why you want a house.

we lived in aflat once.
communal door banging with people coming and going at all hours -and we were on the 2nd floor!
kids ringing buzzers, messing around, or people ringing wrong buzzer.#
shared bin area-some people are filthy. fag butts and rubbish all over the place.
loud music/stomping/dogs upstairs, downstairs and next to.
no outside space.
no decent parking
once ina n upstairs maisonette. DC heavy footed.
thug downstairs with alsation thumping on ceiling all the time. dog left alone all day. barking. no compassion for a disabled child.

yes these thinmgs can happen in a semi/terraced but much less tension.
give me a house any day.

tbh i think you're just pissed off that you cant get out of your flat into a house.

I think so too, Booy.

Is that why you have the hump OP?

Me thinks Olivia is trying to tell us something...

I think people who are lucky enough to have a council flat don't realise how bloody lucky they are.

I don't think its a snob thing. I think its about wanting a garden.

I lived in shared houses from the age of 18-23, then in a top floor attic flat until I was nearly 30 then moved to a ground floor flat when I was pregnant with DD. Believe me the attic flat was totally impractical - steep spiral stairs, fire escape door that opened to tiny balcony and a ladder

I lived in a flat with DD until she was nearly 4 and it was very hard sometimes. I could never let her out in the garden by herself and even when we did go out there it wasn't that simple as it was the other side of the block so quite a walk round. We had to share it with complete strangers some of whom I was not happy having near DD. People who over looked the garden would sometimes lean out to complain about the noise. If we forgot something we'd often have to pack everything else up, take it back, pick up what we needed and then go back because we had things stolen too many times if we left it out (rugs, outdoor toys, scooter) same if dd or me wanted the toilet.

The relief of moving into a house with a garden where i can leave stuff out, hang the washing out and let my children out without worrying is incredible. I couldn't go back to a flat unless I had no choice.

Sorry

Okay, let me clarify. I am not aiming this at families. In fact I feel quite the opposite about people affected by this who have families. I appreciate this is a touchy subject and is by no means black and white.

The people I have asked to mutually exchange with are all well bodied single people occupying 3 bedroom houses, not disabled people or people with children.

My feelings are aimed at people who are single, perhaps with a grown up child living with them yet occupying a family home. I would like to think that if I were in that position I would not be such a snob about moving to a flat. After all if you are wanting to move because you are affected by the bedroom tax then why be so snobby about the type of property?

I am not a snob regarding the type of property I live in, however practically my property is not suitable to my needs. I wouldn't expect another person with a child/children to swap with me either as I don't think it would suit them either. This is not preference it is practicality. yet someone who is on their own but doesn't want to move to a flat because it's a flat is being a snob.

I understand that some people have lived in their council properties for many years and brought their children up there etc. but it doesn't change the fact you are still renting. Someone who is privately renting wouldn't feel they had the same claim on the house they are occupying.

I lived in a four in a block ex council flat, was 2 bedroom, huge rooms and big garden, neighbours were not good though.

Don't get the snobbiness about flats, loads in Scotland, lovely Tenement blocks, four in a blocks etc, size wise often way bigger than a new house.

Maybe if you start saying apartment instead of flat you will get more takers, just the same thing.

I think the op is right.

I would also be pissed off if single people or couples with three bed council houses turned their noses up at a two bed flat. If seems obvious to me that a family with two small children would make much better use of a three bed house than a single person.

I don't think the bedroom tax is the best way to get people to move from properties that are now to big for them though, but I do think we have far too much hoarding of housing, both in the council and private sector. Pensioners seem to be the biggest hoarders but are immune from any of the credit crunch pain because they all vote Tory

As for flat snobbery, flats can be lovely, Europeans seem to like them, I think we should get over this 'English man's home is his castle' mentality.

We live in a HA maisonette. All the HA council/homes we have lived in were or are flats. We are not subject to the bedroom tax even though we are under-occupying as we do not claim housing benefit.

It's affordable rent for our wage. Haven't looked into swapping because of the schools and our background (we had a bereavement that has affected our surviving two children greatly and the school and community have been extremely supportive) and it's being a flat in a rural area. Well, not a lot of takers.

Nope, no garden. Had 2 little kids including one with a disability that affected her mobility somewhat in a 2nd floor flat market rent HA. Before that a baby in a 2nd floor flat. 3 in this maisonette, no garden.

Needs must. Have to take them out for open space. So?

What theusual said. You sound peeved off. Get over it, swap for a flat and enjoy more space.

fanny OP is looking to swap with other council tenants. they know it's a council flat. although OP could try and call it a council apartment. not sure it'll work though

I was kidding, but seriously though calling a flat an apartment makes it instantly more appealing to those of a snobbier disposition.

I understand that some people have lived in their council properties for many years and brought their children up there etc. but it doesn't change the fact you are still renting. Someone who is privately renting wouldn't feel they had the same claim on the house they are occupying.

I dont get this either.

My cousins other grandma was like this. She said that why should she move out of the 3 bed house with a big garden that she was only using the downstairs part of as she couldnt get upstairs, when she had lived there for 30 odd years. It wasnt her house! Yes it was her home, but she couldnt use any of the three bedrooms, didnt use the garden (the council had to do the mowing etc as she couldnt) and yet there was a waiting list as long as your arm, I know this because at the time, I was on it! I ended up being able to buy my own house before I was offered anywhere, and that took years!

There seems to be this idea that just because you have a council property no one should dare ever ask you to leave to a more suitable property. That doesnt work in private rentals so why should it work in social housing?

And I know about flat snobbery too. There is a very anti "the flats" attitude around here. No idea why as they are all far newer and nicer than the houses!

'I am not a snob regarding the type of property I live in, however practically my property is not suitable to my needs. I wouldn't expect another person with a child/children to swap with me either as I don't think it would suit them either.'

How so? Because you have a young child? Plenty of us with young children live in flats. Who is it unsuitable?

I have a little boy who has to be run about like a dog or he doesn't sleep.

So one of us, depending on DH's shifts, has to take him out of here to a park or open space every day. In Highland Scotland.

A PITA, yeah, oh, well. It's a nice flat and we're putting a lot of work into it.

Next door to us is a blended family with 6 kids in total.

completely missed that you were joking . yes it does seem to make a difference for some, just not sure it would fool council tenants.

Most under-occupiers are people age 61+. They are exempt and always will be.

I could spend time being bitter about it, because I know a lot of them, living in some very nice houses in great areas. But so?

Too busy getting on with things.

Put in for a 3-bed flat then. You're no more entitled than they if they continue to pay to top up their rent.

The flats in blocks of 4 can be lovely if you have good neighbours. Probably worse than living in a block of flats if your neighbours are horrible. But this might be an option for OP if they have these in her area.

I really don't get why you think a person not wanting to swap is being a snob unless you live in a bad area. You may think your flat is not suitable for your needs, but there a thousands of families like yours living in flats. Perhaps the people you wish would swap brought up there families in flats and waited for years to get a house. That is why they may be reluctant to move back. When your children are grown, probably unimaginable now, you might share that reluctance.

Do pensioners living in social housing really vote Tory? That seems v unlikely.

other than the bedroom tax, there is no reason for someone undericcupying to move, so they aren't doing anything wrong.

Op imo you want them to move as it suits you. It doesn't suit them, so its unlikely to happen. Can you look at increasing your family income as you will have choice if you aren't reliant on others actions.

Also, there was a big build of new properties purely for the elderly, they couldnt be let to anyone else. In the end they had no choice but to put younger people in them as most stood empty thanks to the housing hoarders who refused to move!

I realise I am lucky to have a council property at all. I live in a rural area so my flat is not in a massive block. It's actually quite nice, lovely quiet road with private properties as well as council, no horrible neighbours etc.

Practically I have a young son and am about to have a daughter so at some point I will be considered as being under housed, yet currently I am unable to bid on 3 bed properties. I have bid on 2 bedroom houses/bungalows but have had no luck.

I live upstairs and so it will not only be difficult managing the stairs with a buggy and small child but is also dangerous. We have a communal garden which would be ideal for taking a dog out but we can't put any play equipment or anything out for our little one to play on. I have also had health problems this pregnancy meaning that I have been housebound for the last few months which hasn't helped my mood much

I would move to a 2 or 3 bedroom maisonette/bungalow if someone would be willing to swap so I am not being a snob at all. After all I took this flat in the first place. It was ideal but now we are having another baby it isn't suitable.