19 year old male hit my 12 year old DS

[ItsYoniYappy]

My Ds came in crying and had wet himself with fear. DS was going in for 'a friend' the brother came out and took DS into his house and pushed him against his wall and told him never to come back to his door again then chased him home.

I seen red and asked Ds to get in the car with me and show me where this person lived, we seen him walking home as we drove to his house and I parked the car, jumped out of the car, ran over to the 19 year old who was taller and stronger than me (and DS) and grabbed him back his arms face on and shook him asking 'do you like someone older bullying you' and continued to do this until he answered me.

I couldn't shake him much as he was bigger, taller than me and quite heavy so he didn't move much but he got a fright.

He ran off to his house to get his mother and I advised her I would be sending the police, I have ruined any chance though by shaking the 19 year old. The mother said nothing.

I know I shouldn't have gone after him but I over reacted. DS advised me after this the 19 year old has some mental health issues and carries knives etc...and often just punches his brother for no reason when Ds plays with him on X Box. (After I had been and shook him)

I know I shouldn't have shook him but I just wanted to scare him as he had scared my DS, I think, I also have MH issues with PTSD and with this comes anger. My anger sometimes spills over onto non normal levels.

Was I BU by shaking him and scaring him? I most likely was but needed to vent anyway.

Ah your post of 3 o'clock explains why the other young man was so angry. You OP made it sound like they were calling for his brother, but in fact they were winding people up. That worked then!!

'This is a group of around 10 DC, they hang around in crowds of from 4 up to 10.

That could be seen as quite intimidating, 10 bored kids with nothing to do hanging around in the evenings.

I agree - hence me not liking my DS being with any of these Dc. He only started going out with them all last September and it's been nothing but trouble tbh

This only being the tip of the iceberg.

DS being the tallest of the boys, he gets picked out very easily from the other who all look about the same same/shape. I would quite like my X Box boy back who didn't go out at all

My neighbour's children were badly bullied by some rough older kids when we were young and she was out at work. My sister did basically exactly the same as you describe to the chief bully when she and the bully were 15. She lifted him up by the scruff of his neck and told him if he ever went near the young lads again she would knock seven shades of shite out of him. She was a skinny but tall thing thing so I have no idea where her strength came from but she actually lifted him off the ground. I am not sure if it was the total embarassment of being beaten up semi metaphorically by a girl or just shock but he and by extension the others never went near those kids again.

In the unemotional cold light of day your actions could have been better, we all know that, but I hope they prove to be as effective as my sister's were. By the way it is one of the proudest I have ever been of my sister.

I question who the bullies are and who the victims are in the light of your revelation as to your son's behaviour.

I think it is extremely anti-social behaviour that has lead to suicide in some circumstances.

I know I am going to sound like a DM reader now, but when I was about 9 (late 1960's) I was part of a gang of boys that did this to one house. A 14/15 y/o lad rushed out and caught me, he slapped me really hard round the face, drawing blood... I did everything I could to hide this from my mum as I knew I had done wrong, and if she found out she would have been furious and made me go back to the house to apologise.

But that was then and this is now.

Positively restrained in my opinion!

You need some counselling for your own anger issues, OP. I guess you know that. That's one good thing you might salvage out of this mess.

I do go for counselling, every 2 weeks and have done for months, sadly there is no magic cure for PTSD, or magic pills, so I have to deal with it, or suck it up as some would say.

Do you get angry at your son, and shout at him to the point you feel you have lost control of yourself?
Do you think that the counselling is helpful, or do you need more support?

Boom I think you're hectoring the OP rather. She's having treatment why are you probing?

I generally managed OK with my DC, I will not lie I have shouted at them before though yes. When they were both being very annoying one night especially and I swore at them. Since them I have vowed not to let them get me to that point (again).

I do not hit them, ever, no-one does.

No my counselling is terrible, I have a huge amount of support, just now both boys have counselling via WA, one son goes for 3 hours per week (DS2 as he was hitting me daily) DS1 for 1 hour and he has never hit me and would never

I have finished mine with WA, so see a Therapist for CBT, I also have a Support Worker from another charity who I see for 3 hours per week (to help me leave the house and get paper work done - ie bills), I also have CAB trying to get my benefits reinstated.

My parents take the boys whenever I ask. My brother takes them swimming and out once a week and inlaws take them once every 3 weeks.

So in answer to your question, no I do not lose control my DC, I do if someone hits them.

We left their F for this very reason

Sorry about typos, my mind works quicker than my fingers so some words come out wrong

The OP left an abusive situation to keep her children safe, and despite her own problems and the area she lives in, she's still trying to keep them safe.
It's a lot to ask of one person, so I was wondering what support she had, and if her anger issues skewed situations for her, so that she reacted first and thought afterwards. Or if her children knew how to redirect the anger to some other target.
Sometimes counselling helps, sometimes the counsellors are crap and have their own agendas which means they are not supporting an individual properly or effectively.

I have known the OP for the last seven years. She has done so incredibly well in spite of all the trauma she and her family have been through. I have no doubt that all of her issues stem from this. She is a loving good mum and leapt to defend her child as I am sure most of us would if the situation occurred and it was our child dragged into someone's house. Yes I suppose it is annoying when children knock the doors and run but weren't we all kids once ?

OP I think you have had a very tough time in the past. Your son is still only 12, and I think you were right to try to influence who he hangs around with and choses as his friends. Better that than just turn a blind eye and let him get swept up with the troublemakers.

The bigger issue is about your son and how he got into this mess. He will have had a scare from that older boy. If you decide to speak to police/community police, then they might be able to have a talk with him also about what might lie ahead if he keeps up with this gang. And if he has been warned off by the police, that might be the perfect excuse for him to distance himself from this crowd and say that the police told him to stay away.

It sounds to me like he doesn't actually WANT to be with these kids. Would that be right? What does he think about them and their (his) behaviour? Are they really his friends? Do they give a stuff about him? Does he respect any of them? If the answer is no to all of the above then really, he needs to keep himself away from them and try to find some new friends - start his own gang iyswim.

He may grow out of this gang in time, or he may get sucked in. And I think you need to have a very honest discussion with him about which outcome he would prefer. If he could steel himself against some teasing and ridiculing now, in order to be free of these kids in the future, is this something he could try and do? It might be possible that they would pick on him for not hanging out with them anymore, but that would only last for a while and they would get bored and move on to something else soon enough. Would this be worth it for him to be 'free' of them in the longer term? That's what he needs to try and figure out, tho god knows, that is a very hard thing for a 12 yo to do.

Are any of the support services you are in contact with at the moment able to offer any strategies for how to keep your kids safe, occupied and out of trouble in these teenage years? Does he have any interest in sport? Is there a youth club in the area? Can he find something to do with his time other than hang out with these kids? If he had football or swim training 2 or 3 nights a week for example then he's have an excuse not to be around and he would grow in confidence too from the activity and the team sport etc. He might meet some new guys to hang out with.

I don't condone the runaway knock, but I do sympathise with his comment that they have nothing else to do. It's a real bug bear of mine and I think that is a crime against these kids, that there isn't enough invested in keeping them occupied and off the streets! Playing fields, sports centres, community centres, swimming pools etc. These amenities should be plentiful and heavily subsidised. If they were, I think there would be far less of this petty crime as I think most kids would prefer to be out of the house but have somewhere to go that is welcoming and interesting to them. Good luck with it all OP. Have a night's sleep and decide on police etc when you are calm and have it thought through.

Thank you M, you're a wee star.

Boom you are right about my counselling it it terrible and useless but I have some back up with this now so hopefully, my useless counceller will listen to this other agency.

Most of the DC goes out with are OK, 2 of them I would rather he didn't 'hang' with but these 2 come with the crowd, sadly these are the DC he has gone through school with, I have tried to guide him to be more friendly with his x box friend who is a lovely DC but very quiet and as the CAMHS counseller said my DS may need friends who are a bit more fun.

They do occupy themselves sometimes, I have them all in here, sometimes they meet up with girl from school and they make youtube vidoes, Gangam style and Harlem shuffle.

There are no youth clubs (community centre just been closed down), I have tried to get him into almost every club but he also has IBS and his anxiety is showing itself by making him think he needs to go to the loo for wee. At one point he was spending 4 hours per day in the bathroom. So he plans his life around where has access to toilets, he will use. (only uses certain loos) He has an all day pass at school and access to a certain Teachers loo. (more private)

He does sometimes go swimming after school but if any of the other DC come in for him, he rushes out with them.

He can start rugby in August which he is interested in (his height being an advantage at last)

He has had counselling on keeping himself safe and a safety plan should their F come near them so I would hope he applies this to every situation but there is no getting through to him just now, regarding 'his friends'.

As soon as the DC apologised and shook my DS hand but the next day he was off out with them again (after staying home for 6 weeks)

I have tried and tried not to have DS be a 'follower' and it's not just me, my Dad has spoke to him, my Mum, my Brother, his counseller, my cousin (school teacher), my aunt (s. worker).

My parents were quite unwell with worry about DS and his anxiety, my Dad is in his late 60s and was crying as he was so worried about DS not going to school, or coming home at break times when I did get him in to school, so I feel like I am treading water until we get him appointment with CAMHS in approximately 4 months time.

There is very little choice for DS, I sometimes wish he was a bit more confrontational and would use his height to his advantage (not bully but not the walk over he is and think more for himself)

I think I will talk to the Community Police today as I would like to know if there have been any reports about DS and his 'friends'. I will update after I have contacted them and they have been out. I do not like the police, I have no faith in them, because there is no CP Order over my DC (because I protect them) they say their F can do hat he wants and this makes me detest their black and white picture of most things. I may like them more if we are not discussing my X though. So will call them after I get myself looking OK.

Can I just add I do not have anger issues,(I know it seems petty but I very rarely get angry these days) I have PTSD, it spills over on every emotion, if I get stressed, I get more stressed out than someone without PTSD, if I am sad, I am sadder than most, if I get angry, I get angrier than most. If I find something funny, I laugh (sometimes at inappropriate times) every emotion I have is OTT just now. (out of pyjamas)

My X has literally drove me crazy.

I wish it were a case of going for some anger counselling and it going away but nope, I somehow need to get rid of the PTSD and all of this will go. Sadly that is not looking good just now as my counseller has never treated anyone with PTSD.

Mummylinn knows me very well, we exchange emails frequently so she knows my full life story, warts and all. She has been there when my X was here, when he was gone, when he tried to come back, when he threatens me, when I had to give court statements, everything.

M once again thank you my friend xxx

I have just read whole thread.
I can understand why you are stressed.
I think as Worra said, I also would leave it now.

Deal with what you know, not what you have heard. So, the knife, you don't know for sure about that, and ds was not threatened with a knife, so I would keep that out of it for now.

This lad was well out of order, you sorted it yourself, end of story (as far as rules go for this type of lad).

However, his younger brother, thats a different story. Definately call SS. They might be aware of this family already? Plus, your call might have a knock on effect which could travel down to your ds in a positive way.

I think you are doing everything you can to help yourself and ds, with CAHMS, couunselling etc.

It seems like you are slowly equipping him with the tools he will need to deal with life's hard side, although I am sure you wish you didn't have to!

Thank you

I phoned the Community Police and spoke with an Officer and said I would like someone to come out to discuss my son.

He does know of my DSs group and in his words:

They are boys being boys, they are nothing to worry about, we will come out if there is a problem but we will not parent him for you. We have community officers on the estate and you would soon find out if he was getting into trouble, just now he isn't, I have sons myself and also deal with DC in the Community, your son is behaving like a normal child, I can understand you worry but you have nothing to worry about. Your son seems like a nice lad and yes he does stick out from the crowds (height) but we have had no complaints about him, if we did we would come and see you. His attitude may change but he is 12 almost 13 and this is all normal.

I explained a neighbour had called the police recently (she has 4 times) he said:

For throwing a snowball? Did you never throw a snowball? Chap door run? Did you not play chap door run, I did it's normal and we would not involve ourselves over this.

I think I know the neighbour you are talking about and she will have been told the same.

Everything you are saying to me is normal behaviour if I were you I would be concerned and keep an eye on his for drugs use, everything else you are explaining is normal almost teenage behaviour.

That must be a relief. Wjat a nice community policeman, keeping things in perspective, and he is right of course.
No mention here of drugs, violence, shoplifting.

Am sure your ds will be fine :)

Did you ask the CPO to talk to the 19 year old as well?

Yes he was very nice man.

I was slightly worried tbh as I have a neighbour who loves to report my DS for living in the street, (she came to my door the day I had the keys threatening me with an interdict - after talking to her it turned out DS had done nothing - she just doesn't like his friends and her DS is in the same yr) she does call the police a lot and I see the Community Van every time she calls them, I thought perhaps they were building up some secret case against DS but no, if they had a problem they would come and see me.

He took my number and was going to check the records for over the last few weeks and get back to me if there was anything for me to worry about but said I would most likely know about it if anything had happened and he hasn't called as yet.

Someone mentioned moving away from here, I would have loved to but DSs have been unsettled enough, everyone I spoke with felt it would disrupt the boys further if I moved away and boys didn't want to move as 'all their friends are here'.

I may be able to move when they finish school in 8/9 years. (going by youngest DS age)

Anyway here is hoping DS will move onto something else now (like playing in the park) and stay away from doors.

No Boom I didn't.

That was dealt with on Saturday.

I thought you had left the thread on Saturday too? As you haven't I will.

You do not help my anger

Yoni I am so sorry if I was a bit abrupt about your ds's behaviour.I think you are all having a really rotten time and I cant think of anything useful.Could your ds maybe join something like a Tae Kwando class or another sports club to give him an interest. Otherwise could you invite his 'nice friends' round for xbox sessions.A kick about in the park would be good too.
I hope it all works out for you.