To think that even if you're sleazy enough to think wolf-whistling is a compliment...

[BedHanger]

There are some groups of women you'd spare from the honour of your attention?

Like, maybe, a sleep-deprived new mother with a month-old baby strapped to her chest?

Yeuch. Why do some men think this is ok?

It's totally about putting women In Their Place.

The only times I have ever had this happen - and it used to happen quite a lot - was when I was dressed up as a student or out running.

Both times when I was feeling happy, confident in my body. It's a slap-down.

And incidentally, the running thing - I have been fit and svelte and it's happened - and I have been a tubby size 14 and it's happened. It's not about people actually finding me sexy. It's about 'there's a woman exercising seriously, put 'er in 'er fucken place'.

And as for feminism is about choice, yeah - it's also my choice to criticise women whose choices contribute to a culture where women are oppressed.

I once saw someone who claimed to have had FGM performed on her daughter say it was her choice and she was a feminist. 'Choice' can be made to defend damn her anything.

I totally fail to see how the act of whistling can put someone in their place. I am a confident women and independent thinker, no amount of men whistling at me is going to change that. Instead of being a scared little women who is slapped down by a whistle, is it not far more feminist to just be happy in your own skin, and take it on the chin? Or even better to take it as a compliment? Whilst I respect some women dislike being whistled at (we all have our own opinions) there is nothing about my view that is oppressive to women.

That's a hair-thin line you have there, squeakytoy, imo.

Wolf-whistling
"Get your tits out"
Bum pinching
Tit grabbing

• it's all part of a spectrum of sexual assault.

Is it the fact that wolf-whistling isn't verbal that makes it okay? What if it was grunting instead?

I appreciate the autocorrect has changed every time 'woman' to 'women'!

it is so not about "putting women in their place"... plenty of women whistle at men... so that argument just doesnt make sense..

I have a feeling that some posters on here would find a comment like "wow you look really nice in that dress" as an insult and clearly because they are a woman, wearing a dress, so to comment on that would be putting them in their place...

"Is it the fact that wolf-whistling isn't verbal that makes it okay? What if it was grunting"

grunting? how is that anything like a wolf whistle? the only thing that has ever grunted at me is my dog when he wants to go out..

'I totally fail to see how the act of whistling can put someone in their place. I am a confident women and independent thinker, no amount of men whistling at me is going to change that. Instead of being a scared little women who is slapped down by a whistle, is it not far more feminist to just be happy in your own skin, and take it on the chin?'

BUt what about women who are not 'confident', perhaps for good reasons?

What about women who are thinking rather less superficially?

How is it feminist to ignore the real issues that threaten women?

I imagine that a lot of men wolf whistle simply thinking, wow, that woman is sexy, this is a nice way for me to flirt with her. That is an obvious thing to think and it's obvious for lots of us to respond thinking 'oh, nice, this bloke thinks I am sexy'.

Where it gets scary is when things are twisted out of shape, and that is what's happened in our society. Women do get raped and harassed and belittled. It seems harsh to feel angry with them for that! Some men do get to thinking that women are sex objects - if no men ever though this we would never have rape. So it seems absurd to have a go at some women for thinking about this and about why it happens.

Saying plenty of women whistle at men is, to me, not dissimilar to saying that blackface is ok because plenty of black people have tried to pass for white.

Hasn't there been some research on this, under the broader rubric of 'catcalling'? Isn't the generally accepted position that wolf whistling etc. is not about the women it's ostensibly aimed at, but about establishing the masculinity of the whistler, usually for the benefit of the other men around? In which context OP, YANBU, it's irritating enough when you aren't in a post-birth haze to be coopted into someone's attempt to realise their masculinity...

Grunting as in "sexy" "uh uh uh baby" grunting. How about kissing noises then?

Making a connection between wolf whistling and raping is rather extreme even for mnet! If a woman isn't confident of course I'm not saying that's her fault, but neither is it the case that all women who lack self confidence feel that way because of men. Men also do get raped, harassed and belittled its not only women, and some women do view men as sex objects-have you never seen a group if 'hens' out on the town? There is a market for male strippers/butlers in the buff. So I think rather than thinking superficially, I am actually drawing a distinction between a man wolf whistling at a woman, and perhaps issues of greater impact.

Oh Christ, it really isn't

It's not 'extreme'.

It is simply the very basic and obvious point that some women feel sexually threatened because sexual threats to women are not unheard of.

If you cannot understand where 'rape' comes into this, I suggest you revisit the dictionary definition.

"Hollaback activists from Mumbai to Mexico believe that any behaviour that stops you from feeling safe in public, even for a moment, is street harassment ? that a "compliment", even if well-intended, is only a compliment if it feels good.

This is not about being anti-flirting, but there is a huge gulf between paying someone a compliment with courtesy and respect, and invading their personal space or shouting uninvited remarks."

Source: Wolf-whistling is just the start ? harassment is not harmless (Guardian)

"Catcalling is a way men inflict their will on women. In this way, it goes hand in hand with rape culture.

...

There are men who insist that catcalls are ?flattering.? No doubt there are women who are complicit in this too. Men often use this as an excuse that because some women enjoy it, that I, a completely different woman with a different set of tastes and standards, should appreciate it too. This is, of course, a warped and idiotic logic that is based on the understanding that I, in my possession of XX chromosomes, must be a part of the hivemind of womanhood that kowtows to male standards of behavior. Because. . .

Rape culture demands that women are sexually subservient. We must behave in a pre-programmed way to any and all attention we get on the street from greasy strangers.

...

Catcalling is part of rape culture. It declares that the catcaller has more rights than recipient of said harassment. It tells her that her voice is irrelevant and that she should just grin and bear it. It tells her that she should take it as a compliment and if she doesn?t, it?s her that?s broken. Pardon me, well-meaning straight guy who doesn?t see catcalling as part of rape culture, but doesn?t this sound familiar?"

Source: Cat-calling and rape culture go hand in hand

Or that tsk tsk teeth sucking thing men do from more east european middle eastern areas, hate it. Imagine that's their equivalent to wolf whistling.

I'm a confident, independent woman, with aspirations and goals. I still feel threatened walking past a bunch of men...I was raised with the feminist ideology. It's threatening, I just want to walk past anyone without comment because that is my right as a HUMAN.

You wish to 'relish' in it, I'll support you, but I find it threatening and wholly inappropriate

And when I've been overseas and had the teeth sucking, it definitely feels threatening and not complimentary in the slightest.

More from the Guardian

(Obsessive link-posting = time to go to bed )

I agree with backtobedlam. I have never in my life been intimidated by walking past a group of men who shout and whistle. Why would I am a strong and confident person it would take a massive amount more than that to slightly intimidate me.

It doesn't matter if you personally don't find it intimidating. The issue at hand is that it happens at all.

Your implied assumption that any women who don't enjoy it are joyless, should be grateful, etc, is a symptom of conditioning that you have experienced. You have been conditioned to think that sexual attention is a compliment - it should be what you prize above all else - that you should be grateful for it.

That's what they are thinking when they are doing it. "Women love being told they're sexy - my approval of her tits will make her day, the horny little minx." If you are one iota, one whispering shadow, more complex than a walking male approval receptacle, you should find this unsolicited attention at the very least irritating for it's patronization.

Whoever said that street harassment is ok because hen parties do it... That's not quite right. When hens jeering and heckle they are doing it to be intimidating. Which, funnily enough, is the same reason men do it to women. It's not like men get heckled at 10am going to get a pint of milk is it? The co-opting of intimidating behaviour by women does not make the men's behaviour suddenly ok, ffs.

Yy to all of that Undertone ^^

No cause sometimes somebody says something annoying, or its someone Im not attracted to I just would sarcastically shout fuck off you dick or turn round do a fake bow and stick my fingers up and stivk my tongue out etc. The most I have ever seen is one of his mates shout wahheyy to the one that did it. If you have a problem with it just say.

I live in a holiday place its very frequent to hear women shout get your cock out etc. Its just seen as banter and you can shout back without problem. Men usually take it as a joke to. Its just the culture but having read the above link it must be your areas culture. Here there isnt anyone carrying knives, no risk of mugging, people leave their doors unlocked all night and single women walk round day and night in whatever and I have never known a random attack. I suppose I would feel different if I lived in a scary place, but this is all I have ever really known.

I hate being whistled at and used to find it very intimidating when it used to happen a lot when I was in my school uniform years back.

I am very glad that now the majority of building sites have policies which mean the people working on them have to be respectful to passers by.

I got whistled at last summer by a builder working round the corner from my house and it just felt very creepy as he stood and watched me walk up and down the hill and then back again as I went to collect my DD from playgroup.

I struggle to see how that is anyway flattering I really do. But I know when I've posted like this before I was called jealous etc.

I probably find wolf-whistling intimidating and aggressive because it began when I was about 12 - 13, and I didn't appreciate being made to feel like groups of grown men were amused at viewing me as a sexual being at the time. It frightened me.
I have always assumed since that the aim is to scare. Harassment.

Men stopping and telling me politely that I look nice today is a different thing. And being called love or whatever is a completely completely different thing!