AIBU to expect children to care for parents at some point

[ruthyroo]

Had an interesting discussion with my parents recently.

They were talking about an aged relative - my aunt's MIL - who is 90 and in failing health, and slipping into dementia. She has recently been in hospital, and is not keen to go home. She has asked to go to stay with my aunt and uncle 'until she's back on her feet'. My parents were talking about it as if she was scheming and conniving to somehow get her foot in the door at my Aunt's and sneakily live there forever instead. Since she is 90 and feels very vulnerable I said that surely it was totally natural for her to want to be with people she knows and trusts, and wasn't that what families did for each other.

Their reaction was very much that parents sacrifice themselves for children and help them out, not the other way round. And that if I expected my dc to look after me when I was old, well I'd better not rely on that. I pointed out that DH and I moved back to the UK from Aus, partly because they and my PIL are not getting any younger and that we fully expect to have to help them out more in the future. But they were not to be budged: parents help children out (financially, childcare, lodgings, support etc) - not the other way round.

In my aunt's case there are other factors that would not have made it a great idea for her to take her MIL in - she's not in great health herself, my uncle is in a wheelchair and she doesn't have children nearby to help her out. But my parents applied the same rule to themselves and said that they had no expectation of my sister and I helping them out or - God forbid - offering a place to live if they needed it when they are older.

AIBU and totally niave to expect that children help parents as well as the other way round?

As a GP, I see a lot of families running themselves ragged, trying to care for an elderly relative at home. Multi-generational households can be wonderful if the older members just need a helping hand with shopping etc but caring for a sick and dependent relative, especially with dementia can be a huge burden and it distorts family relationships. Often, if the relative finally goes into a nursing home - provided it's a good one - it is an enormous relief to all concerned, including the elderly person (who has often been all too aware of being a burden) and family relationships improve.

It's easy to romanticise the good old days when everyone supposedly looked after their elderly parents but the truth is that UK life expectancy in 1950 was only 65, whereas it is now 81 (for women), so - where elderly parents are frail and dependent - families may be faced with caring for them for decades. I cared for my dying father for a year and it was an enormous strain, though I'm very pleased I did it. I simply could not have done it for 20 years, though.

YABU, no I don't think their should be an expectation, it's just not possible these days, for a start we don't live just around the corner from family anymore. I also think children shouldn't expect to inherit parents house, they need the money to pay for the best care that it will buy.

Sorry 'there'

Able bodied elderly sharing houses is very different from needing 24 hour care.

We also have children later so you get sandwiched. When my FIL was 90 yrs I had a 10 yr old, a 2 yr old and a baby. No way could I have done it. His mind was fine-we saw him a lot and he loved seeing the DCs grow up. He also liked his peace and quiet-most 90yr olds would find day to day life with babies and toddlers a bit much -a couple of hours was enough! He was in a very nice care home. The other residents loved seeing the DCs too. It took most of his money, but you would expect that. It paid for him to have a good quality of life-that was what mattered.

boney that is the whole point, it is the attitude of being guests, family are not seen as guests and do not feel like guests. My Dad lived between two houses depending on his fancy. There was not one main carer, only in last 2 weeks my cousins daughter, decided she didnt want to leave him alone and slept next to him and everything, but in daytime she went to see boyfriend, went to facials and to uni, and there were other people to look after him. In her house were her 2 brothers in twenties and her mum and dad as well. Where ever they have lived, they have always included my dad in their plans, when looking at rooms etc, even at times when he has lived somewhere else.

I think it also depends very much on where in the world you live.
Here in the uk, I would find it very difficult to be personally responsible for my parents or in-laws at home.
People tend to move very far away due to jobs. Also, it seems to be frowned upon and very expensive to have home help (a house keeper that will do the daily mundane cleaning, washing, cooking), in other parts of the world this type,of help is accessible to the "normal" family allowing more time and energy to help family.

anyone I am not talking about good old days or 65 year olds, neither is africanexport

I wouldn't call it duty, for my family they did it out of love, not out of duty, they could have easily sent him to UK for me and my bro to deal with, but they argued with us they wanted him there, with them, in the country he loved, there was more of them to cope etc. They just did it as it is normal you help and care for someone you love, to them.

My dad would have hated being a care home. He liked to wake up in middle of night and talk to people, or watch tv, at home he could do that, he liked to go for drives random hours, he would have felt in prison in a care home.

And where are you meant to put them? Not everyone has money for a large house/extension.

You have to know your limits. Having a new baby,sleepless nights, a lively toddler and a 10yr old, a DH out 7am to 7pm and a 90yr old in a 4 bedroomed house would have been too much for me! Better to say so-not that it was ever put forward as a suggestion FIL would have been horrified. He lived 3 miles away, with carers came to visit a lot and we visited him-much the best for all. I doubt the 10 yr old would have got much attention if I was trying to fill the needs of 90 yrs and 9 months.

Did your dad have dementia Nailak? If so that is amazing.
All thos boils down to relationships doesn't it. I could give up a great deal for my parents or grandparents, but would find being the default carer for in laws much more difficult.

And 65yrs isn't elderly!! (unless they have dementia or disability). 65 yr olds I know are running marathons, out riding horses all day etc. They can certainly live alone. FIL was 87yrs when he went into care and that was only so he could live close -200 miles was too far to look after him in his own home.

my dad had a brain tumor which caused him to sometimes be confused. he used to see things and not be sure what country he was in, confuse people for other people and so on.

I know many women who look after family and elderly relatives. As it is the norm in some cultures. Personally I don't know if I could do it. They manage with help of extended family to run businesses, raise kids, do charity work and look after relatives.

There are women who will tell me my fil or mil doesnt appreciate, shouts at me, blames me for everything, yet they still look after them, and then a few months later the same woman will say my mil/fil died and the family came to me and apologised and said how good i was, and how much they appreciated, or that my fil was in hospital and he was asking only for me saying he wanted his daughter, even though before that there was no sign of being appreciative.

nailak and exotic Of course 65 isn't old - that's exactly the point. But in 1950, it was the average age of death. People died (on average) at an age we now consider relatively young, so most families weren't faced with the prospect of caring for elderly, increasingly frail relatives for decades.

I never suggested that a care home was right for everyone. But I have seen nursing homes save the sanity, health and marriages of families who were at breaking point after years of trying to care for an increasingly unwell relative. With respect, caring for someone with a brain tumour, as challenging as it is (my DF died from a similar condition), is very different in timescale from caring for someone living for dementia for a decade or more. I do however have the greatest respect for families who care for elderly relatives, whether for a short terminal illness or in the long-term.

I have the greatest respect-I just don't think that having a 65 yr old to live with you is anything like having a 95yr old living with you. My FIL was living alone aged 85yrs-even cooked us a full roast dinner with Yorkshire pudding-my mother took herself off to Australia with a friend aged 82yrs. Looking after someone who is able bodied and sound in mind is very different from being main (only carer) for 10-15 yrs.
I also note that it is always the woman doing the caring-why is that? I don't see any mention of the man giving up work to be full time carer. Certainly in the cultures that look after the elderly it is generally the woman-and usually the DIL-they tend to go to the man's family and the DD is looking after her ILs.

yes it is usually the women. women traditionally fulfill caring roles. I also agree no one should be judged for their choices.

My mother is 65. She cannot move without assistance. She will probably live another 20 years. Deciding to devote your life to looking after a relative does not make that person a burden.

That's it. I could do much more for my own parents but would be much harder for anyone else. Should not fall tp women only, unless they choose it.

My father is 85 and my mother is 79. She has lived in a care home for just over 2 years. She has levi body dementia. My dad has been paralyzed after a stroke 10 years ago and my mum was his carer. When we realized my mum was developing dementia we uprooted our family from London and settled at the far North of Norway to help them. We stayed just over 3 years, left when mum was in care and dad had a wrap around care package in the home.
Life in Norway did not work out for us, for various reasons. Happy to help, but not possible for us to live here full time. For now my parents are fine the way they are.

but why would you assume they don't choose it? and then there is always the internalization of patriarchy argument to belittle women's choices and intelligence.

I guess some women just think it is easier for them to stay home and do it, rather then their husbands. One woman told me that she knows it is her husbands responsibility not hers, she looks after her husbands mother so her husband is able to fulfil his responsibilities. She also runs a charity together with her husband and has children.

Men are just as good at it-my cousin looked after his mother for years.
I am just rather cross with my brother who can turn his hand to anything in the home, and does, and yet expected looking after the elderly to be 'women's work'.

Can i just say regarding to other cultures: yes, it is very common to look after the elderly but you also have an army of extended family to support you.
If i was in my town in Spain i would have 20 aunts, 50 cousins, and all the neighbours visiting and offering help. I could go shopping, maybe even to work (well, if there were any jobs in Spain).

Even in UK the cultures who consider this as the norm i.e. Asians, tend to live close to relatives and everybody helps.

It is much harder when you are doing it on your own. So, like i always say you cant just pick one thing from another culture and copy it if the other factors are different. I don't know if i express this well.

Oops, sorry nailak, just seen your post. You have said this before.

I have four siblings, 3 sisters and a brother. My brother has schizophrenia, and cannot have any stress in his life or his condition deteriorates. I expect if he didn't have this he would step up as he has always been very close to my mum. One of my sisters has BPD and is also physically disabled with the same condition mum has, although not yet as severely as mum. The other two sisters don't bother because I do it. They bothered with my mum when she provided childcare for them, but now they like to pretend she doesn't exist apart from the odd condescending visit with expensive flowers on Mother's Day/Birthday/Christmas.

In our case it didn't come down to gender, it came down to who didn't have their own life.