AIBU to expect children to care for parents at some point

[ruthyroo]

Had an interesting discussion with my parents recently.

They were talking about an aged relative - my aunt's MIL - who is 90 and in failing health, and slipping into dementia. She has recently been in hospital, and is not keen to go home. She has asked to go to stay with my aunt and uncle 'until she's back on her feet'. My parents were talking about it as if she was scheming and conniving to somehow get her foot in the door at my Aunt's and sneakily live there forever instead. Since she is 90 and feels very vulnerable I said that surely it was totally natural for her to want to be with people she knows and trusts, and wasn't that what families did for each other.

Their reaction was very much that parents sacrifice themselves for children and help them out, not the other way round. And that if I expected my dc to look after me when I was old, well I'd better not rely on that. I pointed out that DH and I moved back to the UK from Aus, partly because they and my PIL are not getting any younger and that we fully expect to have to help them out more in the future. But they were not to be budged: parents help children out (financially, childcare, lodgings, support etc) - not the other way round.

In my aunt's case there are other factors that would not have made it a great idea for her to take her MIL in - she's not in great health herself, my uncle is in a wheelchair and she doesn't have children nearby to help her out. But my parents applied the same rule to themselves and said that they had no expectation of my sister and I helping them out or - God forbid - offering a place to live if they needed it when they are older.

AIBU and totally niave to expect that children help parents as well as the other way round?

There is no perfect solution to this conundrum. You do what you can, and what you can live with. That is different for all of us. I think we all have different expectations for our lives, and that obviously plays a part too.

many of you are talking about looking after your parents - in theory. the reality may be quite different. my mother stayed with us for a month or so - LT it wouldn't have been viable for me to carry on working - i work from home, but looking after a semi continent person and trying to work/attend conference calls was very stressful and not fair on anyone LT. Despite numerous requests my mother could never indicate the urgency or her call...so i never knew if i had to crash out of chairing a call immediately - due to urgent toilet request, or just the TV channel needed changing.

I felt like a prisoner in my house, as she couldn't be left for much more than an hour without organising someone else to look after her.

a bedroom had to be allocated to her, so people had to sleep on the sofa.

she woke people during the night, which made it hard for me the next day at work and for the kids at school who had crucial exams which determined their futures.

she hadn't bothered keeping in touch with our family that well when her grandkids were growing up ...so they didn't feel close to her and were embarrassed to bring friends home - so went out the whole time.

we watch totally different things on TV...and i mean totally different.

so yes in theory this might sound OK, but the reality could be screwing up your families finances both now and when you retire, and being held a virtual prisoner in your own home.

poppy Are you not having children because you genuinely don't want them or because your mother's care needs make it not possible for you to have them?

It would break my heart if dd didn't have a relationship or children because of me. I am raising her in the hope that she will have a wonderful, happy, fulfilling life. My dh and dd (and the soon to be ds who keeps kicking me!) make my life very happy so I would never want to deny her the opportunity of the same experience. If she has other plans in mind to make her happy that is fine by me. But not caring for me or dh. We will make our own arrangements.

MummytoKatie I'm not having children because I have my mother to care for - as others have clearly said, you can't do both. I made a decision to prioritise my mother. It isn't the right decision for everyone, but it is for me.

It is also not the "easy" thing to take the care home option - if you do not have the money available to pay for a decent one, the choices are usually limited to the one the last government-funded-patient died in... (sorry to be blunt - but care home places do not grow on trees - some places have waiting lists - usually dead man's shoes for the good ones)

Do not think it is easy to get a place, do not think it is easy to get funding.... the care home has the right to refuse if someone is violent or abusive (one of the common reasons given for putting folks in a home)

IF this IS your plan for the future of your parents make sure there is going to be money available! And if it is what you want for your future you need to be saving double your pension provision from your 20s in order to be able to pay for it... Care homes can cost thousands a month

Having just returned from a few hours calming mum down in her care home- she had convinced herself my brother was coming to take her to Spain, I can tell you that my head is done in and I am emotionally battered and drained. Just from a few hours.

I am very sad that the words "palming off" have been used to describe sending someone to a care home. It is just this sort of thoughtless comment that adds to the guilt of knowing you are unable to provide for the needs of your elderly relative. It is never an easy decision and is certainly not just a case of packing them off and being able to get on with your lives.

My mother died a long time ago- the person left who resides in the care home is not my mother. You cannot begin to comprehend how dementia steals the soul from someone and leaves a shell that is unrecognisable until you witness it.

I would be doing my mother, and everyone else around me a disservice by bringing her into my home now. I could not keep her safe, I wouldn't be able to leave her for 5 minutes, to pop to the shop, to take a bath. My dogs would have to go, everyone would be woken during the night, many times, every night. There would have to be a whole team of people coming and going from the house, at all hours. It's not like having a slightly dotty, forgetful grandma having a few meals cooked and all sitting round the fireside with the DCs hearing stories from the past. Mum is on a 3 minute loop with her questions, they never stop and are repeated over and over. Never mind the rest of the care she needs. If there was ever a description of purgatory, dementia is it. Stuck in a moment somewhere between life and death in a state of total confusion. Being in my care would not change any if this for her, yet it would destroy our lives. No parent would want to burden their child with that.

In theory, and on principle, I agree with you ruthyroo, and tbh am surprised that the majority of post on here are YABUS.
Obvs, a parent with Alzheimers is a different kettle of fish-my Granny had it, and was totally doolally, and needed 24 hour care, but in general, yes, I do consider it my duty to care for my parents when they are old,(although my dad is dead) and as I am the only sibling living near my mum, I know that it will come down to me.
We don't even get on that well, but I have seen care homes, and I wouldn't stick her in one of them.
What I am hoping is that I will be in a financial position to pay for a carer, as well as doing shopping and caring myself, and that she will be able to live in her own home with that support.
But if that is not possible, I expect she will be living with me, until she is genuinely a danger to herself or us.
Maybe it is a cultural thing (I am not really English) I dunno, but I do have a sense of duty (there's that highly unfashionable word again) and I would do my damnedest to honour it. She's my mum.

Oh I feel a sense of duty and I do my damnedest to honour it.

But I would be failing my mum to put my sense of duty before her needs, and she needs more than I am able to give.

It's not a clearly defined choice, though, between either looking after your parents yourself, or putting them in a care home. My mum needs a lot of nursing and has been in a care home for a fortnight, after coming out of hospital. I haven't just left her there, though. I'm in every day, often twice a day, for hours at a time, feeding her and entertaining her.

It isn't really a case of just putting them in there and leaving the staff to get on with it. I am my mother's advocate, and without me her care would be pretty dire, from what I've seen!

That's it, IfNotNowThenWhen, a sense of duty. To me it is doing what is right for my mother. Others don't have to feel the same, but to go on about how you don't plan to be a burden to your children - maybe your children won't consider you a burden? I could never think of my own mum as a burden.

I've thought about this more and I really think it is down to expectations for your life. My parents were disabled when I was born, although not as seriously as later in life. I've been a sort of carer for them all of my life, so it came as no surprise to find myself stepping up when my dad died. Why wouldn't I? I was 26 then and had no children of my own. It was easy to make the decision that if mum needed me, that was that, my path was sorted.

The thing is though, we have no way of knowing what sort of an old age our parents will have. It would not make sense to have no children in case my parents develop dementia. They may remain fit and well, or not. In the meantime, they want to enjoy life, and their grandchildren are part of that.

I can see your circumstances are somewhat different Poppy, as you have known for a long time that your parent will require care.

My DB and I both have a 20 year plan. Then he will be 60, and I will be 55. He is single.

The idea is that we then move back to where my mother is. She will be 84. He has a property nearby, and I will actually move into my mothers house, so that she can be cared for as long as possible.

It is a 20 year plan so that hopefully my children will be at university, or working, and my DH will have retired. We are allowing these 20 years to save up enough money. Hopefully I will have a job where I can work from home.

We are doing it together so that it doesn't fall to one person - there will in fact be three of us, me, him, my DH.

We are under no illusions that if my mother is seriously ill she will go into a home.

If she needs that sort of care while my children are still in full time education there is no way I'm going. If he has his own family, the plan goes. My mother has no idea, so we won't be letting her down if it fails. When we are all living in the area, we will be able to support each other as we get older. We know we are lucky.

My mum has 12 grandchildren, Sprinkle, so she doesn't miss out. I'm the youngest by a large margin - when she needed the care my siblings had already started their families. I hadn't. It therefore fell to me to provide the care my mum needs and I am happy to do that. That has meant having a different life to most people, but it isn't a lesser one.

My mum has made it absolutely clear from my early adulthood that she INSISTS that she wants to be "sent off to a home" if and when she becomes too frail or (her words) bonkers to live unsupported.

I am grateful to her for this. But it will be very very tough to have to do.

I think she would concur with your parents OP. She cannot bear the thought of being a burden and has always been very unselfish.

I wasn't suggesting she missed out Poppy. Just musing that things are perhaps different if you have early knowledge that parents will definitely need care. She sounds very lucky to have you.

I'm very lucky to have her, Sprinkle!

That's all I want to get across, really. All this talk of burdens - it really isn't like that for me. It just feels so completely natural.

I left work to look after my terminally ill parents. who died pretty young (62 and65).

I have told my children that under no circumstances are they to try to look after me at home. I really mean that. I would much rather go into a home.

I do hope they listen to me.

I'm glad. That sounds nice, and a great relationship to have.

YANBU my DUncle and his wife cared for Dgf in his old age, their lives were on hold.during this period (i'm talking years) it was pretty hard, my uncle looked haggard as my dgf would creep to the bathroom at night in fear of waking him and risked falling, so he could never rest at night. It was hellish just watching. But my uncle/aunt have absolutely no regrets, what they did was so rewarding and I have nothing but admiration for people who look after their parents in old age, with patience and compassion.
In many cultures its the expected thing. And many world religions also give the parents a high status, therefore their needs shouldn't become secondary etc.

A close relative of mine has no children and now in her fifties worries about her future. I would never let her die alone, and would treat her as a parent. Bloody tough but couldnt live with myself if she asked for help and I refused.

It's the hardest thing in the world to see your elderly parent fade before your eyes.
My mum had dementia, was doubly incontinent and couldn't even walk on her zimmer before she died.
I'd have done anything to have had her with me, but sometimes it's just not realistic, and she spent the last month of her life in a nursing home.
It should never be about obligation, it should just be what you feel is best for them.

I think you've nailed it at the end of your post ladybeagleeyes. It's not about obligation, it's about doing your best for your parents at that point in time. Because you choose to, not because you are obliged to.

I certainly feel a huge amount of gratitude to my parents. Maybe I am seeing strings attached to their gifts that don't actually exist. They both jokingly say 'a wee peel in thir tea' will be the best option when they are too old to live independently . Certainly the stories and experiences of the posters above who are coping with demented and ill relatives are not something they would want to wish on me, nor me on my children. I totally agree that many older people need more care than a child can give. I guess I was thinking of the stages before that - when they can live with some independence with a certain amount of care and assistance from others. This thread has opened my eyes to the often grim reality of l

I think you've nailed it at the end of your post ladybeagleeyes. It's not about obligation, it's about doing your best for your parents at that point in time. Because you choose to, not because you are obliged to.

I certainly feel a huge amount of gratitude to my parents. Maybe I am seeing strings attached to their gifts that don't actually exist. They both jokingly say 'a wee peel in thir tea' will be the best option when they are too old to live independently . Certainly the stories and experiences of the posters above who are coping with demented and ill relatives are not something they would want to wish on me, nor me on my children. I totally agree that many older people need more care than a child can give. I guess I was thinking of the stages before that - when they can live with some independence with a certain amount of care and assistance from others. This thread has opened my eyes to the often grim reality of looking after granny. I'm going to make the absolute most of my wonderful parents / grandparents to my dc while they are with us in every sense - that's the real reason we came to live closer to them.

Life often never pans out the way you think despite the best laid plans.

Both my grannies have dementia - one moderate, one severe end stage - both are in care homes for different reasons due to their specific care needs which can't be met without 24 hour care.

Both have outlived my mother by 7 years. You can't always foresee what might happen.

Can I just say what a good thread this has been. Thought provoking for me, but no nastiness around such a difficult and emotive issue. Thanks all.