AIBU to expect children to care for parents at some point

[ruthyroo]

Had an interesting discussion with my parents recently.

They were talking about an aged relative - my aunt's MIL - who is 90 and in failing health, and slipping into dementia. She has recently been in hospital, and is not keen to go home. She has asked to go to stay with my aunt and uncle 'until she's back on her feet'. My parents were talking about it as if she was scheming and conniving to somehow get her foot in the door at my Aunt's and sneakily live there forever instead. Since she is 90 and feels very vulnerable I said that surely it was totally natural for her to want to be with people she knows and trusts, and wasn't that what families did for each other.

Their reaction was very much that parents sacrifice themselves for children and help them out, not the other way round. And that if I expected my dc to look after me when I was old, well I'd better not rely on that. I pointed out that DH and I moved back to the UK from Aus, partly because they and my PIL are not getting any younger and that we fully expect to have to help them out more in the future. But they were not to be budged: parents help children out (financially, childcare, lodgings, support etc) - not the other way round.

In my aunt's case there are other factors that would not have made it a great idea for her to take her MIL in - she's not in great health herself, my uncle is in a wheelchair and she doesn't have children nearby to help her out. But my parents applied the same rule to themselves and said that they had no expectation of my sister and I helping them out or - God forbid - offering a place to live if they needed it when they are older.

AIBU and totally niave to expect that children help parents as well as the other way round?

I think sometimes the kindest thing you can do for someone is find them a nursing home where they will be safe and cared for.

My grandpa had cancer and between the family we cared for him at home for 3 weeks round the clock - it was exhausting (physically and emotionally) but it was what he wanted so we did it.

My grandmother had dementia, she wasn't safe to be left alone none of the family where in a position to be able to become her full time carer which is what she would have needed. We hunted high and low for the perfect care home for her where she spent a very happy 18 months until she died.

You can't say how you will respond until you are in the situation and even then it depends on the specifics of that situation

I posted about my Mum and Dementia earlier on th thread. In the middle of getting her diagnosed my FIL is gettjng more and more frail overseas. He has Parkinson's which seems to be progressing. In the last month he has got stuck in a chair for three hours plus fallen in a shop knocking his two front teeth out. SIL rings every morning, DH after work every night, my other two BIL's just bury their heads in the sand. He is also diabetic, had a triple bypass 10 years ago and hard of hearing.

We're trying to get him to accept help. Obviously we want him to come back. But he won't . Everyone else says well he'll have to come back won't he. Bu the reality is we can't make him. Guess we'll muddle through until there is a crisis. He is showing signs of weakening on the having help front. Having been through the whole Mum thing we know that 'yes I've had my medicine and drinks today' means 'yes I think I have had them today' but the reality is likely to be different.

Thank goodness my Dad's COPD and Macular Degeneration are both pretty mild, that his cancer is in remission and he has a partner as he lives 100 miles away and I couldn't cope with having to deal with medical problems with him.

And somewhere along the line I needs focus on my Year 9 DD and her GCSE's and DS's transfer to Middle school in September, take care of my health that is suffering badly from all this, try to maintain a relationship with my fantastic DH as it looks like it will be just the two of us as at this rate children leaving home and no ill parents anymore look quite likely to happen at much the same time .

I always thought we'd be able to look after our parents but never anticipated being in the situation we're currently in, being pulled in all directions at once and feeling that I'm not doing very well by anyone.

I know how you feel Wynken. I helped nurse my Dad when he was dying of cancer, and had a 2 year old at the time, and a job, and it was utterly draining, physically and emotionally.
Part of the reason I felt I had to be there, at the hospital, so much was because of the very patchy care there, and we couldn't trust them to make sure he got fluids etc, or was clean.
Nothing is worse than watching a parent deteriorate, and tbh, the fact that my Dads demise was relatively quick was a mercy.
I think I, like OP, am thinking more about old people who are somewhat mobile and well enough mentally and physically to have some independence.
I do think that sometimes families really don't want to take them on, partly because they can't face the thought of any extra work, on top of kids/jobs etc.
I just think that, as far as you can , you should make an effort to keep families together, and I actually do feel an obligation to that end, same as I feel an obligation to care for my son.

Sometimes doing your best for your elderly parents is accepting that they need outside help.

I think many people who blatantly disregard care homes, or the help from nursers, saying "I could never do this to mum/dad" are more concerned with themselves than their parents. It is a very selfish attitude to put what you are comfortable with ahead of the needs of an elderly mum or dad, grandparent or aunt.

The best place for a frail 90 year old might actually be a carehome, not at home responsible for bills, shopping, heating, cooking, cleaning, an elderly care-needing spouse/dependent.

Due to budget cuts and the horrible state care for the elderly, more and more elderly people stay home, or in sheltered living, until they are very old and vulnerable, so are really quite unwell when they first enter an institution.

In an ideal world, there would be retirement condos for couples, with nurses, doctors and home helps on call, and with no stigma attached to living in a place like this.

I wonder where you put them and how you survive on carers allowance of £55 a week after you give up work to care 24/7. You do know Carers dont get armies of respite help and jolly holidays right?
And no-one hands you you're job back later on.
My mother is gone 80 and I'm petrified.

People dont just die these days. I fear we have shot ourselves in the foot with medical science and this longevity malarkey. People live well into their 90s, get old and frail, cling on to live for dear life, with medicines and what not. Nobody wants to die. Too scared, and tied to this planet and this life. And what quality of life??

I completely agree, Quint.

I think people get to determine their own quality of life, though. Saying 'I wouldn't want to live like that' is fine. Adding on 'therefore noone should' is not.

OP, I don't think YABU. Of course children should be expected and obliged to look after their elderly parents, after all the parents raised them and cared for them and taught them to be civilized and sacrificed so much for them.

Every case and set of circumstances is different. My mother and grandad looked after my grandma who had alzheimers at home until it became too much for both of them. Then she went into a nursing home, a specialist mental health unit for the elderly or those with early on-set dementia. She was there first of all for two weeks every five - and then after a few years she had to live there permanently and they had to fight tooth and nail for it. They simply could not cope any longer, grandad was in his 80s and it was making him ill and my mother ill. Grandma went into full time care in 1994 and died in 1999. During those five years my mother and grandad visited her daily, fed her, did her washing so her clothes stayed bright, arranged for her to have a special bed in the last year due to the bed sores. My gran had no underlying medical conditions so the alzheimers ran its full course; probably over 15 years - she was also incredibly well looked after and lived much longer than usual. For the last seven years she recognised no family member; for the last two she had forgotten how to feed herself and to drink and was fed like a baby with puree and a sippy cup. She also became doubly incontinent, suffered a series of tia's, and when she died was four and a half stone.

I'm not sure to what extent the level of care my mother insisted on was a kindness in the end. I know I certainly resented the fact she had no time for me or her infant grandchildren during those years and we had no-one else to help and remembered her not being there for us.

However, my mum did it for her mum, her mum did it for my mum's grandma and I shall have to do it, to some extent (I don't think to the extent my mum went to) for my mum. It will be my duty. I will make sure my dd doesn't have to do it for me by making my own care arrangements well in advance or accepting only palliative care at some stage.

'Of course children should be expected and obliged to look after their elderly parents, after all the parents raised them and cared for them and taught them to be civilized and sacrificed so much for them.'

You've not met my mother shankaron who made it clear we were a burden and the worst mistake she ever made and put every single boyfriend before us and let them abuse us.
Still think my children and life should be put aside to care for her? Lose my job and care 24/7? I dont fucking think so.

infamouspoo I think that regardless of what your parents might've done in the past you have a duty towards your mother and you must treat her with great kindness. Two wrongs don't make a right!!

That is the stupidest thing I have read in a long while Shankaron. You cant be serious. A parent cannot expect any kindness and "duty" from a child they have not extended the same courtesy to. "two wrongs does not make a right " is a silly platitude.

Poppy

I think that should be the same for looking after parents.

shankaron

"I think that regardless of what your parents might've done in the past you have a duty towards your mother and you must treat her with great kindness."

I can't agree with that at all.

OP, I don't think YABU. Of course children should be expected and obliged to look after their elderly parents, after all the parents raised them and cared for them and taught them to be civilized and sacrificed so much for them

It was purely selfish-I wanted to have children-loved raising them and caring for them-had a great time doing it. Love their company now and I haven't sacrificed anything-my life is much richer for them. I am now having a nice period of freedom to do as I wish to do-I want the same for them.
They do not owe me anything and I have told them quite plainly they are not responsible.
We had my mother for a while when she wasn't well. It was hard. Firstly she had to have DSs bedroom-the only one suitable, secondly she couldn't be left for more than 2 hours, thirdly she had to be bathed, hair washed etc and she couldn't even make a cup of tea for herself. And she was perfectly OK in her mind-imagine that with dementia and not even being able to leave for 2 hours. She went on to my brother who thought 'it would be easy'-in reality he found it anything but. It was my SIL doing the caring and when she said if it was long term would he give up his job and she would go to work-there was a pause...... a very, very long pause .... before he said that 'he supposed so'.
Luckily she made a full recovery ,and although still quite disabled, lives independently with a 24 hour warden. She is a different person, isolated with family she became quite depressed and found it difficult to mix-now she has lots of friends, goes out and socialises and is very bright.
I don't mind giving support, visiting, shopping, cleaning etc-who would? But not living with us.
From my age, now, my mother had 30 years of freedom, she had holidays, some long haul, she had lots of friends, hobbies, time to visit and spend time with grandchildren -to come and go as she pleased. I want the same-I don't want my life to close in until I am too old to want, or enjoy it.
Above all I want my children to have it-I don't want them to be left looking after me-especially if my mind goes. I am not having my DSs bathing me and taking me to the toilet and I don't see why any future DIL should get it!! I will pay strangers.
My friend has had her mother living with her-it worked for years because she had space but eventually she wasn't safe-couldn't be left alone -she had to go into care. My friend has a DH, DCs and a life too.
I get fed up with being told how other cultures look after their old-any books I have read they may well be looked after, but often not very kindly and very often quite isolated-they may well be better off in care in many cases.
For this reason I have told my children now-and I have never been more serious about anything-they are not doing it.
I know one couple who would think they were 'owed'-their DD has emigrated to Canada while in her 20's-with a view to future problems I would imagine.

You've not met my mother shankaron who made it clear we were a burden and the worst mistake she ever made and put every single boyfriend before us and let them abuse us.
Still think my children and life should be put aside to care for her? Lose my job and care 24/7? I dont fucking think so.

I am appalled that anyone should think she should-much less say so.
Of course you shouldn't ,infamouspoo anyone can give birth-it takes a lot more to be a mother.

I think that regardless of what your parents might've done in the past you have a duty towards your mother and you must treat her with great kindness."
Absolutely disagree.

I have said several times that different things work for different circumstances. I just don't accept that my life is a lesser one because I have to care for my mother instead of having a partner and family of my own.

I think that in the extended family set up, people are raised around different generations, so are more aware, from a young age what is required to look after them. For example I remember when I used to visit family and I looked at old people and just saw old and wrinkly and eugh! When I went back recently I was kind of shocked how natural my nieces and nephews in their teens and early twenties were with grandparents, sharing bed and stuff, that at that age I would have cringed at.

When my dad was sick the whole family all mu cousins etc got involved in looking after him, every day at visiting time he had 5-10 visitors! My 19 year old niece cared for him in his last weeks, she slept next to him, bathed him and so on, and for her it wasnt weird. even for me that would have been weird and he is my dad. It is easier because they know what is involved, they have seen others do it.

Where as us in this country we live in our individual family units, and prioritise that above everything else. This naturalness with old people leaves us.

There is no way I'd ever make my son feel obliged to look after me in my old age, it's not what I brought him into the world to do.

poppy

I have never said that your choice was the lesser one.

It takes guts determination and a huge amount of love to be the main carer for someone in their old age.

Its just that from my experience alot of the people that do take the road that you are on don't make that decision for themselves.

We have lots of elderly in the family-it isn't a problem relating to them-DCs grew up with regular contact with over 80yr olds up to 103 yrs. Visiting, chatting, playing games, taking out, shopping, cleaning etc are all absolutely fine. Having 24 hour care, which includes never leaving alone unless a sitter is available, wiping bottoms etc is completely different.

but in an extended family it wont be one person providing the care, i gave the example of my dad, all my cousins and their kids who are teens were involved in caring for him. It wasn't a big deal that he never had to be left alone as there was always someone available. Even if they lived in different cities and stuff, they would often come down and stay the weekend or the week and be involved in caring.

nailak

But there will be one main carer that does the "grunt" work and the others are really just guests unless the main carer gets to go away for those weekends.

wow... how sad.. YANBU

My OH granny stayed with them growing up. My grandparents moved in with us when they needed looking after. MIL stays with us for 6 months each year and SIL for the other 6 months. My mum stays with my brother.

I think it is our responsibility to look after our parents and think extended families are important. It is what makes families strong, knowing that we will always be there for each other.

Granted ... there are cases when I could not cope with looking after them but, until such time that we cannot I do believe it is our duty.

My children understand that as part of lifes duties, possibily because they are used to granny living here so for them it is the norm.