Pole dancing parties for eight year olds - starting a bit young?

[nemoni]

So, whilst trawling the internet for a suitable party venue for one of my children I was fairly surprised to see pole dancing parties listed under 'children's party venues in Manchester' on the local netmums page www.netmums.com/manchester/local/view/parties/venues/pole-dance-and-beauty-party

So, 'Caters for adults and children's parties from 8+' - pole dancing parties for eight year olds? Am I missing something??!! Or, am I being unreasonable in my assertions that this is a bit inappropriate and perhaps takes girl's make-over parties to a whole new level? Surprised to see it advertised as a children's party venue, even more surprised to it it on said website.

Over to you fellow mumsnetters...

mechanical and I am asking women to open their eyes to what the fashion/music/dance industry actually is? lol

you yourself said certain types of dancing is sexual but it it ok as it is a bit of fun, you made that boundary of what sexual and fun is for yourself, it is not objective boundary is it?

Of course it's not objective. What in life is?

For me, the line is firmly drawn at "turning something which is inherently abuse of women into form of exercise".

Funny that. Most of my friends think the same.

so you wouldnt do belly dancing either?

because I know in some places women are forced in to belly dancing, that even in London there are mujra dance clubs and stuff where pakistani women are exploited in to doing belly dancing and bollywood dancing in skimpy clothing for benefit of men and strip in the clubs, however I would still go to bollypop and belly dancing classes.

fuzzpig there was a film about that innit? the full monty?

I'm all in favour of adults doing what they want.

bollypop are classes for under fives in childrens centre

I just google mujra dancing wiki says this "Mujra is a form of dance originated by tawaif (courtesans) during the Mughal era which incorporated elements of the native classical Kathak dance onto music such as thumris and ghazals or poems of those from other Mughal cultures such as Bahadur Shah Zafar.[1] Mujra was traditionally performed at mehfils and in special houses called kothas. During Mughal rule in the subcontinent, in places such as Jaipur, the tradition of performing mujra was a family art and often passed down from mother to daughter amongst Muslim practitioners. The profession was a cross between art and exotic dance, with the performers often serving as courtesans amongst Mughal royalty or wealthy patron"

me and my friends did do kathak dancing classes as preteens, our mums forced us!

Is belly dancing seen universally as a form of prostitution? No.

Is pole dancing? Yes.

Your examples are very sad, but they are not a cultural touchstone in the way that pole dancing is. My immediate connotation of belly dancing is not "sex worker". It is for pole dancing.

I am glad that you are happy with your choices. I am happy with mine. I do not think that eight year old girls should be getting pole dancing classes from a woman working as a prostitute. I think that any woman who does pole dancing classes and doesn't understand that it is sexual is very naive.

There is no more to be said on this for me, I have said all I wanted to say.

I can totally understand why parents would allow their children to participate in pole 'fitness'....especially when it's so hard to find gymnastics, ballet, tap, judo, swimming, football or netball teams for kids to help them keep fit. Oh, no, wait a minute.....

Mumto2kiddies.
This woman. a hardcore porn star, was offering "lessons" to children in a studio decked out like a soft-core porn set that is available "for private hire" (with cameras) when she's not running lessons.

What do yout think happens there when it's not all good clean fun for the kiddies? Really?

This was the example we were given to critique, and you know what; it was about as bad as it could be.

Belly-dancing was originally an all-female activity that men were neither allowed to see or participate in. It became the preserve of salacious western tourists, and modern cabaret belly dance bears about as much resemblance to the various forms of tribal belly dance as a badly made up elephant does to a marmoset.

I agree that the setting makes a difference, a gym, versus a porn studio. Yes.
But I can't ever feel that an activity that started out as a way to titilate men in badly lit, overpriced bars is ever going to be an appropriate way of keeping an 8 year old fit.

Nor is it easy to believe that an activity that is still advertised as part of the sex industry all over town is suitable for 12yos who will be quite aware of the connotations- and whose mates will be aware too.

I think MrsDeVere's point about working class activities is relevant: the parent who allows her dd to take part in this is sending a certain message to the rest of the world about her (low) expectations for her. That message will be read by all those around her and will be part of what shapes the girl's image of herself.

Rather like the mother who told me during a chance meeting that her 11yo dd was a nymphomaniac. According to dd who knew her well, the girl was nothing of the kind. But she was pregnant 4 years later...

Just to clarity: MrsDeVere;s point was that there is something very wrong with promoting something sleazy as a suitable stepping stone if you happen to be working class.

To those defending the woman offering classes for children's parties, make no mistake, the parties would take place in a brothel.

Pole dancing only became sexualised in the 80s in the way we're discusding here; the 20s if we're discussing the erotic roots; prior to that for hundreds of years it was an ancient 'art'. belly dancing was sexualized first for hundreds of years then in recent years became a leisure activity.

What we're really talking about therefore is not the history of either dance form as many posters keep suggesting but their own views if either form of dancing.

Would I let a child of mine participate in pole in a circus/child friendly setting? Yes. The same for belly dancing . I would not send them to a club with an adult worker to participate.

Differing opinions of strippers are irrelevant. The majority of strippers cannot pole dance and the talk of it being about the abuse of women is nonsense; yes the industry is open to abuse - in many ways due to people's closed mindedness and wishing to stick heads in the sands - but it would be fair to say (in my experience of the many women iv met) the majority if sex industry workers feel it is the men who are being 'degraded' if anyone. All women have a pair a boobs yet the for the men in these clubs they have to pay to see it? Poor bastards.

Of course! Women in the sex trade are exploited because we are closed-minded! I forgot that!

Szeli
You have changed my mind, it is now the men who pay for sex I feel sorry for! All this time I had been concerned about the women and their boobs, but if course the real victims are the men.

Thanks for raising my consciousness.

I honestly struggle to see how you think they're being exploited; and if you have friends who are help get them out of the industry rather than whining about it on a forum. Or is all your research based on your own dirty thoughts and the film industry? :p x

We are closed minded in this country sex workers are much safer in countries where people are more open minded and allow the industry to be regulated x

Ooh look. Someone else who's best friends are all strippers and prostitutes working to fund their PhDs. Oh, apart from the ones who are strippers and prostitutes because they love sex so much. And the ones who do it because they earn SOOOO much money they live in wonderful Mayfair apartments and run sports cars and accounts at Harrods paid for by grateful respectful clients.

In what way do you think fingering your anus on camera for men to wank over is exploitative of men?

Call me a prude, but NO WAY! Children should be playing at this age. If they want to pole dance later in life, their choice, don't push them into it now. Disgusting and inappropriate. Let children be children. There are plenty of other ways of getting exercise. What's wrong with a bouncy castle!

I'm coming from a background of study in gender and sexuality and years of coming across sex workers due to working in the beauty industry.

Personally I could not do what they do as I could not 'switch off' and I'm somewhat of a prude for myself but I think it's wrong for people to discriminate against someone else's career choices.

I wouldn't hate on a butcher because I'm vegetarian; a tattoo artist because I'm not a fan of body art or a sex worker because I have no interest in getting my bits out for money - but fair play to them if they're happy doing any of those jobs.

Doing porn is not exploitative of men, neither is it exploitative of women. It's grown ups doing what they're doing (what they would have likely done at home anyway) and asking people to pay to see it - more fool those who do. The woman on twitter is doing it for free so she likely gets sexual thrills from it; if its legal and isn't hurting anyone I don't see the problem.

""I'm coming from a background of study in gender and sexuality"

I don't see the problem"

Where did you study?