to think people should be able to cope with their own children alone?

[alisunshine29]

I have two daughters aged 5.5 years and 9 months and can and do do everything with/for them. I have friends with similar aged children who wouldn't dream of giving the kids a bath/taking them swimming /shopping/out for the day without their husband or mum there to 'help They also expect husband/mum to take kids if they're ill themselves/take time out to help with kids if they're ill. AIBU to think it's a bit daft if a parent can't cope with their kids and basic day to day things alone?

OP You sound like my mother. When I so much as utter a complaint that my life is difficult for whatever reason she spouts out that pseudo-superwoman-martyrdom shite. 'I had five under two and three jobs and no husband with very little money' blabla.

It may be true (ish) but it's not helpful. It's sad when people don't want to help each other out and it's lovely when they do and it's appreciated.

My mother is like this because she chose to be independent in another country with no friends or family apart from my father. She suffered and so should I. She has forgotten the fact that her own mother loved looking after us when we went to see her abroad. She projected her own experience onto mine because quite frankly she doesn't want to see me getting something that she never had from her own mother.

Of course I could manage if I had to. But it would be pretty bloody stupid to turn away willing/loving hands wouldn't it?

For what? Martyr points?

Mummabug I agree with your points there. I would have given my right arm to have had family near when my DCs were small. My family would have loved it too. It makes a huge difference for the children as well. The DCs simply loved having my mum for a visit and cherish all the time they were able to spend with her - still do though those visits are few now that she is almost 80. Don't begrudge people their closeness to their families. It's what makes the world go round.

I don't think you are bu! Except the husband bit. I was on a long train journey a while ago and saw a mother defer to her mother for every little detail of her childs car, even down to should she put a cardie on baby. Her mother looks exasperated! I was there with my 4 month baby on my own, not for a sodding medal or because I think there is something unusual or noteworthy in it, I simply think a mother ought to be able to care for her child on her own, if not I think it's rather pathetic. I know mums who need help from family to go to doctors appointments, swimming, any form of transport, going to next big city etc. What message does it send the child anyway? Mummy is a bit of an incompetent woose who needs to enrol the help of her mummy as if she is the child. I do it on my own too, with good husband and lovely friends with family who come to visit and play but don't do my parenting for me. It wouldn't irritate me in the slightest except for the fact that those with the most help complain about how hard it is the most. I knew someone who had struck up a fab relationship with her neighbour and said sodding neighbour was even dragged into parenting the child, taking her to nursery in the mornings so mum could have a bath, uh get a grip mum!!! Having quick or no bath in the morn is part of being a mum. I think this is all part of this terrific entitled thinking now where people expect a lot in life and put stuff all in. Rant over. Agree 100%. Husband needs to do 50% though as he is parent too!!!

Oh and does anyone else think it's bad form to drag up ops other posts?! If she wanted to discuss her whole situation she would have. Think this is none of anyones business to link up like this and is bullying.

Applet arts - Normally it is bad form but this op ha got. A lot of people riled and looked very like a bunfight so rain made a good point explaining the context.

I almost felt sorry for her til her post about flu.

Op- try having cancer treatment with a newborn and try coping without help with that. I would love to know how you take 2 kids along to have radiotherapy or sit still for 6 hours while you have chemo.

Mammabug had the right idea- why make your kids suffer if you can have help.

There is probably a valid point about people who dont develop coping skills (woman on train who deferred to her mum) but that isn't what op was saying.

appletarts - don't trivalise bullying. Seriously. Just take a look at the thread currently on AIBU about the mum avoiding the person who bullied her at school. Look at how it affects people and think twice before throwing the word around so casually.

The OP has upset a lot of people on this thread (and gathered some hostile responses) by implying they are inadequate parents when they have help with their children.

She sets herself up in comparison to them as someone who does not need help, who sees it as her duty to manage her children virtually single handed even when ill etc. Someone who is a Better Mum for doing so.

Given that most of her other posts on this board have been about how exhausted and unhappy she is because she has so little access to support of any kind, and is forced to cope with her children herself, it is at best hypocritical to start this thread. At worst, perhaps rather goading. My guess would be that she is unhappy at not having some of the support other mums have (fair enough) - but as she cannot change her own situation, she is wasting energy by criticising and undermining the other mums who do have what she wants.

Just because you can cope on your own, it doesn't mean that you have to.
The Op sounds very jealous of parents who have help and support.

OP it entirely depends on the fit between you and your children's personalities,how straightforward parenting is. Natural health and energy levels come into it too.

Two compliant little girls with similar personalities to their mother is probably the easiest type of family to corral.

I've got four and the two in the middle were a handful at about 5 and 2, to the point where it took me getting together with my mum to work out a way forwards. We are both qualified teachers and I am am ex nursery nurse so we are hardly lacking in insight. In the end we found out they both have SEN. I am sure there were plenty of people who watched me with them and decided I was a rubbish parent, but they didn't have the full picture.

Bear that in mind when you are looking at other people. You may not have the full picture.

As an aside - this sort of one-up-mum-ship IS damaging. My friend is having a lot of scans with her 2nd pregnancy - frequent hospital appts, a lot of hanging around. She is a bit of an anxious, self critical mum anyway (partner is not a lot of help) - and although she has friends who are willing to take her toddler for 4/5 hours while she is at hospital, she says she feels guilty, and usually takes him with her.

It always exhausts her - no matter how many books and games she takes, entertaining a lively toddler in a hospital waiting room for several hours is hard work. He gets whiny, she finds it tough and then feels worse about her parenting.

It would almost certainly be better for her and her toddler if she would accept the help on offer more on these days. He is a lovely confident little boy who is fun to look after. Of course, she copes in the sense that no one dies, they just have a miserable day. It's not just a question of being a martyr-mum, it's about having the confidence to accept help without feeling judged. And she clearly would be judged, by people like alisunshine.

I would add that to build a strong community, people need to ask each other for little favours, so they become interdependent because of reciprocal favours.

Boffinmum - yes, I do wonder how much the emphasis on 'people should do x without help' means 'I will not help you'.

But it is all an ecology of help - within families and a wider community. I am very very grateful for help when I get it! and understand that it works both ways, and needs to be reciprocated. I'm much happier with the idea of living in a community like that than one where everyone just looks after themselves and refuses to offer a helping hand to anyone else.

YABU

I am a new mother, I could cope on my own if I really had to but have close family members willing to help from time to time. It's tiring and I feel I make a better mother if I can sometimes get a break.

I raised four on my own with little help and a ft job. So fecking what? That's how it was.
Now however I'm married, mum has retired and ds's are adults.
Damn right I have time to myself and help when working etc.
Why would I not?
Sorry you feel bitter op but don't criticise others because of it.

The op has an easy age gap to look after two dcs. One of them is at school for a large part of the day for starters.

A 5 year old can get changed for swimming themselves which makes it so much easier than taking a baby and toddler swimming.

Interesting that the op has a big age gap between her dcs. Wonder why?! It couldn't possible be because it makes things easier than running after a baby and a toddler.

I actually agree with you OP. I have a DH and my
Mum lives nearby but do most things for my children and with my children alone. People have been shocked that I bath them and put them to bed alone, because they've never done that. people were shocked that I do the supermarket shopping with them. Who would I leave them with? My mum and husband are at work all day! Last Friday someone at work asked if my kids were going to my parents for the weekend so I could 'have a break'. My kids have NEVER gone to anyone's for the weekend.

I have been really suprised by how much help other people have. I didn't realise it was that common. I'm not smug, it really never occurred to me to ask for help with those things. I didn't realise until quite recently that other people did.

handlebartash - just a quick question, because I am genuinely interested -

If your husband or mother were able and willing to help out with your children, would you accept that help? Or would you prefer to carry on as you currently are?

Just that something that has cropped up a LOT on this thread are posts saying 'of course I can do x all on my own - but if the offer of help is there, why would be the point of refusing it?

So here, let me wave my magic wand! Your partner is offered a great flexitime deal at work and says he'd love to do more with the kids on 2 afternoons a week. Your mum says she'd really like to take the kids on weekend trip, or just for a day out. Or would be happy to babysit/do bath and bedtime once a week at your house.

What do you say?

Op I sympathise with you, it is hard work doing it without much support.

I have to say I find it scary enough taking my nearly 2 year old swimming, I honestly wouldn't take 2 children swimming unless the oldest one was a very confident and competent swimmer who was well behaved all the time. Which probably would mean we wouldn't go swimming. Well done to you though op for being able to do this, I mean that very sincerely.

Appletarts

It isn't bullying. The intent is to help the OP by bringing up relevant information. Also, it is context for other posters. She's had more unkind comments frompeople who don't know the context ( that she is smug etc) than fromthose who have linked to her other threads.

rain

interesting what you say about your friend

I had a hard time with 9mild) PND when I had a baby and a toddler. I was not coping and something had to give, so I had DS2 (then 8 months) go to a CM whilst DS1 was at playgroup, one afternoon a week. Initially, I felt guilty and pathetic. But it was the best thing for all of us. A few hours to recharge was the difference between me sinking or swimming.

Feelings of guilt, or the drive to be super-parent and pride oneself in not asking for help are especially common, I'd say, in people who are struggling

jamie, yes, I agree (that those struggling can feel very reluctant/ashamed to ask for help). I've been there with non-child related depression. "I can cope, I can cope, I can cope CRASH! Oh."

I also think this is a thread about mums rather than parents. As in, it's being assumed that the primary function of a mother to have exclusive care of the children - dads can 'help out' but a woman who can't do it all herself, or asks someone else to share care, is in some ways a bit of a failure. 'oh - you ask your partner to do bathtime, do you? And to put the kids to bed? Gosh. I do it ALL MYSELF.'

This doesn't mean that when I see women coping alone who have no choice, I don't sympathise, and don't think 'blimey, that must be tough when you're ill, and can't ask someone just to get the kids up and give them breakfast etc." But I think that's different. I'd quite understand them feeling a bit resentful, or just plain sad, if they knew that we have family nearby, and can (with a lot of limitations!) get help. If I felt they were contemptuous of me for having that help, I'd be very wary (I don't honestly think most women think like that though).

rainrainandmorerain good question.

My husband does do things with with children but he works full time, longish hours and I work part time (also long hours on the days I work though) so I do the lion's share. I did find going from one child to two harder than I expected at first, and would have liked more help from him then. I'm not sure about the flex-time deal idea - tbh I can't see him wanting to do that, and if he did I am not sure how I would feel if he did. My main thought would be the money we could save on childcare if he had two afternoons off a week!

My mum...I actually wouldn't feel comfortable with the kids staying there overnight, but I've no idea why really. I think I just like having them here at night? Bath and bed time to me feels like a parent's job so probably no to that (would love it if DH did it more though!). Taking them out for the day at the weekend? Awesome. I would love that.

Feel the need to share this - my health visitor was surprised I took the baby with me to collect my older child from school. Seriously? Do people leave their younger child with someone while they take/collect an older child from school on a regular basis?!