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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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I'm probably being entitled/unreasonable, but should the teacher wait on my child?

999 replies

WhenIsBedtime · 06/03/2013 09:59

My child has high functioning autism. Attends a mainstream school. Her issues are very mild. No need for an assistant or anything.

The way it works in the school yard each morning is this:

Bell goes at 9am.
All children run to their class marks and line up.
Class teachers come out, and guide them into the building, starting with the youngest to the oldest class.

My child is in the youngest class.

Perhaps once or twice a week, we're a few minutes late. The bell has already gone and her class has lined up by the time we reach the yard. However, we're never so late that her class has already gone inside by the time we arrive. We can always see them.

The entrance gate is at the other end of the huge yard from where the children line up.

On our late days, as we arrive at the gate, the teacher has already came out. He can see my dd running towards the line, but he decides to take the class inside anyway, without waiting on her.

By the time my (very slow) daughter reaches the place her class lines up, they are already inside the building, and the other classes are going inside.

My daughter then gets really upset as she doesn't understand it's okay to go through the door without her own teacher or class. She doesn't understand she should just run ahead of the next class going in, or even join their line instead. Parents aren't normally allowed in the yard. But when this happens, i run in to her and try and convince her to go into the building. But she says "No, I'm waiting on Mr Teacher and my class."

The teacher from an older class then takes her inside for me instead.

I realise such upset/confusion for my child wouldn't happen if i was there with her before 9am every day, but lateness does happen. And other children usually run into the yard up to five minutes late, behind us, but they quite happily join on the back of another class's line. Whereas my daughter won't without a heck of a lot of protest and causing a scene.

Personally (and here's where i'm probably being unreasonable), I think dd's teacher should wait on her if he sees dd running towards him and her class in the yard. It takes no more than a minute for her to run across the yard from the gate.

Obviously, if we weren't at the gate by the time he came out to greet the class, or if we were very late, i wouldn't expect him to wait. But when he can see dd at the other end of the yard, why can't he just wait? Thus avoiding her getting upset and confused?

I've spoken to him about it before, and he says that because his class is the youngest, and goes inside first, if he was to wait, it would delay all the other classes, and it would mean he'd have to occupy his own class for an additional minute.

Just wanted to add, that the children never have to wait outside in adverse weather conditions. They're able to go straight into the building on these days, rather than line up outside and wait on a teacher.

I just don't get why he can't wait an extra minute on dd, yet it's okay for him to be several minutes late on occassion, leaving his class waiting outside, holding up the other classes.

Sorry for the ramble. I'm probably just being precious/unreasonable, but i'd appreciate some opinions.

OP posts:
Branleuse · 06/03/2013 12:12

and i agree with whoever said your daughters issues may be less mild than youve been led to believe, even if academically she is on track. The distress because of a non expected disruption to a routine seems quite marked.

cory · 06/03/2013 12:13

rodandtheemu, I would imagine that the OP is at a stage where she is still struggling with her dd's diagnosis and how it will affect her future. It is a very difficult balance, trying to keep your child's life as normal as possible, in the hope that they will fit in and feel part of things, whilst at the same time making all the adjustments they need to function. It took many of us years to get anything like the hang of it. And who among of us can say we never made the wrong decision, rejecting things that might have worked or desperately following advice that proved disastrous?

cory · 06/03/2013 12:15

pooka Wed 06-Mar-13 12:10:17
"Our school emphasises that the playground is unsupervised until 8.45 and therefore parents must NOT leave dcs unattended before then. Doesn't stop people, mind.

It is an insurance issue. Our school playground is open earlier, but the school could, if required, show numerous term,y reminders, excerpt from school parent contract and so on to prove that they have fully informed parents that children should be supervised until 8.45 "

Our schools have been the same. But have still been able to put special measures in place to allow for Special Needs, e.g. letting a child into the reception area where a member of staff is at work.

QuickLookBusy · 06/03/2013 12:17

I really can't understand a school that's happy for lots of dc to be held up for 5-10 mins while your dd has a meltdownConfused

Surely they will want to come up with a solution? I really would speak to them again. Maybe take a list of your morning routine so they realise how long you're taking.

GLady · 06/03/2013 12:17

Could you turn it into a game?

That sometimes she goes in with a different class

My DS would quite like that it if it was a system, say each time the next year up, all written up on a chart

Then when she has gone in with each line she gets a treat from her teacher

I would say its a secret mission that big and clever girls do in school

Just try to take the anxiety away a bit and make her excited about going in with a different line/teacher, you would needs the schools support of course

OP I understand how hard it is and have had to deal with all sorts of strange situations with my DS, hes older now and it getting easier now he understands himself

PureQuintessence · 06/03/2013 12:23

I dont understand why you dress her before breakfast when she has a habit of tipping her breakfast on herself or over her own head. Are you sure mainstream is catering for her needs well enough?

scaevola · 06/03/2013 12:24

It might help to post on SN about how to alter the morning routine, in particular tips on clothing battles, because if that part can be shortened then you will have far more time available. Or at least less stressful. You might want to ask about sleep issues too.

From what you said in OP, there is 15 minute window between gates opening and line up bell, and the lines of children start moving at a short, slightly variable time just after that. You are only a couple of minutes late, which means the time you need to find to avert the meltdown is quite short. But it's not really a 'when out of the door' question. It's how to cope with the unpredictability that is throwing even such a short school journey as yours.

Can you carry her? Can you ask for access via whichever gate staff use if you are early (or indeed as matter of routine)? Can you arrange a system for DD whereby you always go in last and take her to her classroom?

slatternlymother · 06/03/2013 12:26

Can you give her a cereal bar instead OP? Same kind of texture?

Also, learn to french plait her hair; do it before bed and she can sleep in it. Then, when she gets up in the morning you can just smooth it all down and put in some pretty slides or whatever she likes to have.

Also, with regard to hiding shoes; can you put them on a high shelf, and physically sit with her to put them on to stop the hiding things issue?

Also agree with the lady who said bring your routine forward by 10 minutes; you can reset the clocks (apart from your watch), so on days you get delayed, you won't be as stressed.

And btw, I bet those parents weren't judging you for your dd's behaviour. I bet they felt really bad, and wondered what they could do but didn't want to interfere.

freddiefrog · 06/03/2013 12:28

Can you speak to school and try and come up with some different ideas for getting her in to class? I really think she needs more support than she's currently getting

My DD, SN but not ASD, has issues with being in a noisy playground - school suggested we go in through the school office so it's quieter for her, problem solved.

We also have refusal to get dressed, etc, I've found like things like piling her uniform in the order she needs to put it on helps keep it all a bit calmer

Spilled breakfast - we don't get dressed until she's eaten and brushed her teeth

And she gets to watch Disney Channel if she's ready on time

We also had plenty of stop/start on the way - to stroke every passing cat, to have debates on dog poo, dropped rubbish, etc, etc so I got her a scooter, she loves it, knows she has to stop at certain lampposts to let me catch up or it will be taken away, and it's made it a whole lot quicker.

Hope it all works out for you!

slatternlymother · 06/03/2013 12:30

Also agree that to some degree, your dd is always going to be different. I know that's horrible, but the 'odd one out' comment you made. Well, she is the odd one out. And for that reason, I think you and the school might have to give a little bit, and get her to wait in the front/allow her to arrive at reception when she gets to school a little late.

Catchingmockingbirds · 06/03/2013 12:32

An hour is quite a lot of time to spend getting ready, what problems does your dd have with getting ready?

DS can't dress himself yet (he's 6yrs old), he is learning with a lot of input from his OT but needs me to dress him still. He wears a polo shirt, sweatshirt on top, trousers, and his shoes have Velcro so everything is very easy and (relatively) quick to put on. Is your Dd's uniform complicated items like shirt/tie or can you use easier items? This could help cut down on dressing time and also arguments/meltdowns in the morning.

Hair is a nightmare for DS, jus combing it will cause lots of problems for him and his hair is short. Does your dd have problems here too? Could you just put her hair in a simple pony tail for school or wear her hair down to cut down time getting ready?

We do lots of practice together with getting ready quickly and argument free and will try and use a timer and reward system so if he's ready quickly before the timer he gets iPad time. Start this off in small blocks; eg underwear 1 sticker, top half another sticker, bottom half another sticker, so she doesn't get too overwhelmed.

The same type of breakfast every morning really helps to cut down on any issues too, it might seem boring but it's stress free!

afussyphase · 06/03/2013 12:37

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that if the teacher is not empathetic to this particular instance of her DD's SN won't wait even 20 seconds for her how empathetic is he to other instances? While I agree that in principle this is a 1-minute difference, I can really see how the OP might want some reassurance that her DD's needs will be respected, public humiliation/shouting etc will be avoided, and some strategies (beyond getting up earlier which a 5:30 start indicates she is already trying!).

Anyway. 5:30 is very very early to get up. I don't think you'll solve this problem by getting up earlier or even leaving earlier - 8:40 is pretty early! What about having a routine that your DD can get familiar with for the days you are late, eg you walk in with her? If it's one minute, it won't delay her for the register and the school shouldn't mind too much... I agree with others, you should ask the school what they think should be done.

ClayDavis · 06/03/2013 12:38

Has she got stuck on the idea that 'the rule is you line up in classes and go in with your own teacher'? It's possible that the idea of breaking this is what's causing the meltdown.

Would it help if you found a time to sit and talk to her calmly about what happens if the line has gone in. Maybe use toys etc to role play it. You might be able to extend the rule to 'line up in classes and go in with your teacher but if the line isn't there join the back of another one'. This way she feels like she's sticking to the 'rules' and not breaking them.

It won't work immediately, but might be something to work on long term if shhe genuinely wants to line up.

freddiefrog · 06/03/2013 12:42

Oh, and one other thing, I've found the longer my DD has to get ready, the more she faffs and the more likely we are to have a meltdown.

She gets up at 7:45, comes down, eats breakfast, does teeth, gets dressed, hair/coat/shoes. All done by 8:20, leaving her 10 mins for Disney Channel before we leave at 8:30

It's all much smoother, moving from one thing to another without time to think if you see what I mean

OBface · 06/03/2013 12:48

I do feel for you OP and hope you haven't been too upset by some of these posts but I do think the problem lies with your routine.

I would definitely do breakfast before dressing your DD and put a deadline at which the plate is taken away regardless of how much she has eaten. This is what we do.

Then get her dressed. I don't see how this can take up to an hour, I have a stroppy 2 year old and sometimes have to shoehorn her into her clothes but it gets done.

I commute an hour away on the train for work so there is no option for us to fall behind. I simply can't miss my train. My toddler can be incredibly hard work but sticking to a strict routine works. I know you say you can't wait at the gates if you are ready early (understand that) but if you live a couple of doors away I don't see why you can't wait, ready, inside your house?

I have to be honest, I would be really irritated if my child was held up by the same family everyday.

OBface · 06/03/2013 12:51

You also say your DD enjoys lining up in her place each morning so the school don't need to change the way she comes in. Your structures for getting her there in time do.

cory · 06/03/2013 12:52

OBface, you don't think there may be a difference between shoe-horning an NT toddler and an autistic school aged child into their clothes?

The OP is not only responsible for the dd getting to school on time, she also wants to avoid the rest of the school day being disrupted by her dd's meltdowns.

As for waiting at home, waiting is a big problem for many children on the spectrum.

akaemmafrost · 06/03/2013 12:57

OB I don't mean to be rude but your post is clueless.

My 6 year old mid meltdown is fearless. She attacks me, fights me and screams in my face no amount if persuasion or reasoning works.

If I were to wrestle her into her clothes I would have to use brute strength and would probably end up breaking bones.

Children like this do not see you as the adult or even their Mum, to them you are just something that is making them feel awful and in their panic they will do anything to make that stop.

akaemmafrost · 06/03/2013 12:57

OB I don't mean to be rude but your post is clueless.

My 6 year old mid meltdown is fearless. She attacks me, fights me and screams in my face no amount if persuasion or reasoning works.

If I were to wrestle her into her clothes I would have to use brute strength and would probably end up breaking bones.

Children like this do not see you as the adult or even their Mum, to them you are just something that is making them feel awful and in their panic they will do anything to make that stop.

freddiefrog · 06/03/2013 12:58

OBface, you don't think there may be a difference between shoe-horning an NT toddler and an autistic school aged child into their clothes?

Yes, I agree. Mine is 7, I physically can't force her into her clothes. She's too strong when she's having 5 minutes

Even if I could, she can take it all off again

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 06/03/2013 13:00

It's obvious OP has challenging mornings, and the solution might be more difficult to nail than just 'get up earlier'.

However, the way the question was framed - isn't the teacher unfair not to wait for her twice a week - is what's resulted in so many YABUs, not a fundamental lack of empathy by other posters. Had she asked 'any hint and tips on how I can make mornings smoother so that dd isn't regularly upset', I think she'd have got a much more sympathetic response!

akaemmafrost · 06/03/2013 13:01

Well maybe THAT was what tipped her and dd over the edge this morning.

cory · 06/03/2013 13:02

With my dd it was more that using force would then trigger a panic attack which would bring on physical problems that would keep her off school for days. I sometimes did have to use force when she was having a meltdown, in order to keep myself and others safe, but frankly neither of us would have been in a state to go anywhere shortly afterwards. Comparing this situation to a normal toddler tantrum is just bizarre.

OBface · 06/03/2013 13:02

From the OP's posts I assumed her daughter was at the lower end of primary school age and therefore could still be dressed by an adult.

When I say waiting I mean having coats and shoes on and then watching a few minutes TV before walking out of the door.

If none of these strategies would work then being late is inevitable. Which holds up other children. And if these tasks can't be completed in a timely fashion then I would perhaps suggest that mainstream schooling isn't appropriate for OPs child.

ClayDavis · 06/03/2013 13:03

I'd hazard a guess that shoehorning a school age child with an ASD into their clothes is the one thing that's guaranteed to make you later, rather than earlier.