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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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I'm probably being entitled/unreasonable, but should the teacher wait on my child?

999 replies

WhenIsBedtime · 06/03/2013 09:59

My child has high functioning autism. Attends a mainstream school. Her issues are very mild. No need for an assistant or anything.

The way it works in the school yard each morning is this:

Bell goes at 9am.
All children run to their class marks and line up.
Class teachers come out, and guide them into the building, starting with the youngest to the oldest class.

My child is in the youngest class.

Perhaps once or twice a week, we're a few minutes late. The bell has already gone and her class has lined up by the time we reach the yard. However, we're never so late that her class has already gone inside by the time we arrive. We can always see them.

The entrance gate is at the other end of the huge yard from where the children line up.

On our late days, as we arrive at the gate, the teacher has already came out. He can see my dd running towards the line, but he decides to take the class inside anyway, without waiting on her.

By the time my (very slow) daughter reaches the place her class lines up, they are already inside the building, and the other classes are going inside.

My daughter then gets really upset as she doesn't understand it's okay to go through the door without her own teacher or class. She doesn't understand she should just run ahead of the next class going in, or even join their line instead. Parents aren't normally allowed in the yard. But when this happens, i run in to her and try and convince her to go into the building. But she says "No, I'm waiting on Mr Teacher and my class."

The teacher from an older class then takes her inside for me instead.

I realise such upset/confusion for my child wouldn't happen if i was there with her before 9am every day, but lateness does happen. And other children usually run into the yard up to five minutes late, behind us, but they quite happily join on the back of another class's line. Whereas my daughter won't without a heck of a lot of protest and causing a scene.

Personally (and here's where i'm probably being unreasonable), I think dd's teacher should wait on her if he sees dd running towards him and her class in the yard. It takes no more than a minute for her to run across the yard from the gate.

Obviously, if we weren't at the gate by the time he came out to greet the class, or if we were very late, i wouldn't expect him to wait. But when he can see dd at the other end of the yard, why can't he just wait? Thus avoiding her getting upset and confused?

I've spoken to him about it before, and he says that because his class is the youngest, and goes inside first, if he was to wait, it would delay all the other classes, and it would mean he'd have to occupy his own class for an additional minute.

Just wanted to add, that the children never have to wait outside in adverse weather conditions. They're able to go straight into the building on these days, rather than line up outside and wait on a teacher.

I just don't get why he can't wait an extra minute on dd, yet it's okay for him to be several minutes late on occassion, leaving his class waiting outside, holding up the other classes.

Sorry for the ramble. I'm probably just being precious/unreasonable, but i'd appreciate some opinions.

OP posts:
xigris · 06/03/2013 11:49

God, When I've just read your full routine post. Stuff the Thanks have this Wine instead! The driving sounds like a good idea. I'll speak to my friend whose DS1 has ASD and see if she's got any bright ideas Smile

JeffFaFa · 06/03/2013 11:49

Please ignore all the nasty posts op, i cant truly appreciate what you go through each morning but my ds (7) is been assessed for SN at the moment, hes a sensory seeker with some mild autistic traits imo. Mornings for us are not that difficult anymore it used to be hell but thankfully we live within 1 minute of the school with only a minor road to cross. Being up early doesnt help here because ds hates spare time, he's awake from 6 most mornings and watches tv until 8 then its breakfast, wash, dress, coat and bag on stand at door until we leave. If we start it too early he hates the free time at the end. School starts at 9am and i leave at 8.58 if i can leave it that late and he's not ready too early so its get there, bell, line, in. Otherwise he wanders off to the other end of the playground/grounds (which are HUGE), doesnt hear the bell or ignores it when it goes as he's trying to home in on other kids and his class go in without him while i hunt him down. Thankfully we live so close as he gets sore walking and complains yet he skips and hops, runs off, and also picks up and sniffs litter.

I think you have recieved some very harsh replies here, children with SN, ASD or otherwise are not all the same and what works for one family doesnt mean its the same for others, i agree about reposting in SN for advice there are some fab people other there.

Hattifattner · 06/03/2013 11:49

op, have you spoken to your healthcare professionals about her sleep patterns? If she is waking frequently in the night, and is tired when she gets up, thats got to make meltdowns a lot more frequent and severe - it does with my NT kids!

It sounds to me that you are exhausted too and thats making you overly emotional. Maybe speak to your GP about that too, as you may be suffering from low level depression.

I wonder if they could prescribe a sedative of sorts for your DD just to get her to sleep better at night. That would allow you to work in the evening and then get more sleep yourself. DD would benefit from being well rested. As she is in the youngest class, Im guessing she is still under 7. I would think she is still in need of 10-12 hours sleep a night, and if shes not getting that, it ould explain why she is more agitated at changes to her routine.

Maybe the school can have a new routine for her that is not dependent on her being in line at a set time - again a fixed routine, very predictable, carefully discussed in advance - such as the older class goes in and she follows them. Or she goes to the office to greet the head teacher and then goes to her class with you.

TeaMakesItAllPossible · 06/03/2013 11:49

Take the toothbrush with you and have breakfast in school and brush teeth in school? Go out when it's time to line up with her teacher?

My DSs school will go out of their way to make sure any SN children feel comfortable. And this is a school that specialises in lining up and having very, very quiet children. Talk to your SENCO and class teacher. Tell them about your routine and the unpredictability of the last five minutes - an extra 15 minutes in the school at the start of the day may make a big difference to everyone's experience.

stormforce10 · 06/03/2013 11:50

Grin the slow eater thing is very familiar. DD starts breakfast at 6.50am and rarely leaves the table before 7.15. It would be lovely to spend another 10 mintues in bed but it won't ever happen. I keep a stock of cereal bars and bananas for the days we oversleep and she eats them on the bus or there would be no hope of getting breakfast into her.

Is the hour getting dressed because of her autism? I don't know enough about this but my friends dd is autistic and would take forever to get dressed and finally they discovered she did not like the texture of her clothes. They got her school uniform but in different fabrics and after that she dressed fairly happily. No idea if this might apply to your dd but maybe worth thinking about.

The school seriously need to open up earlier espeically as they're on a main road. Eventually a parent is going to leave their child at 8.30 because they have to rush to work and there could be a nasty accident. Not clever of the school

ByTheWay1 · 06/03/2013 11:50

You are supposed to brush teeth before breakfast anyhow.. dentists advice/NHS advice/common sense advice... do you want the crappy stuff to be swallowed with food, or brushed off and spat out...

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound · 06/03/2013 11:52

Cats the problem with allowing one child in is an insurance one. I suggested a reins beside the roads.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 06/03/2013 11:53

Is there another school that could take her? One more experienced with SN children? Melt downs happen and if the school really don't know how to deal with it then she's not set up for a good day :(

Another school might have better systems in place like allowing a child to get taken in early and sat down with a book or helping teachers set up. And you could get there early without worrying about the gates being locked.

I'm sure school r doing their best but its not working right now.

Surely it wouldn't kill them to allow your dd to get there a bit earlier and let her in. Sod anyone who moans it's not fair. It's not fair ur dd is left upset cos no one knows how to deal with her :(

WhenIsBedtime · 06/03/2013 11:55

Sorry, i didn't mean we draw/read at 7ish. I meant that so long as she gets out of bed before 7.30, it give us extra time and it means we have five minutes after breakfast time (around 8.15 if we're doing okay) to draw/read.

I like the idea of headphones. I don't drive unfortunately, and the nearest place to park is probably outside my house anyway (we're two doors away). no breakfast club at school either.

I'm not sure i could get her dressed after breakfast. Getting dressed can take up to an hour. I like to get that out of the way first, so i can judge what type of breakfast is best. Something that'll take a while, or something like banana and juice that'll be really quick. Then of course comes the upset when i give her something instead of cereal.

I don't think dd would like going in the Main Entrance. She loves to be in line with the rest of her class, and waving as her teacher comes out. I think having her at the Main Office and then walking round separately from the other children would make her feel like the odd one out.

OP posts:
pooka · 06/03/2013 11:55

6 years of dd being at school and we have been late once, when my car was stolen overnight and it wasn't until I was scanning up and down the street as we were leaving that I realised.

Had to call a cab.

dixiechick1975 · 06/03/2013 11:56

Dd brushes her teeth before breakfast - not perfect but her teeth are great.

Been thinking about you op.

Is there a breakfast club? I know it's an expense but might be a calmer start for dd if you could take her into that. Sounds like there may not be though.

pooka · 06/03/2013 11:57

And ds1 has aspergers and loathes school so used to quite often do runner on way from car to school building.

We always get to school about 10-15 mins early so last minute emergencies don't interfere with getting kids in on time.

Catsdontcare · 06/03/2013 11:57

I don't see why insurance would be an issue. Plenty of schools allow parents and pupils onto the school grounds before the start of the school day. I would say the OP's school is in the minority.

TotallyBursar · 06/03/2013 11:58

Dear OP,

It's shitty isn't it.

Do you have much support outside of school for dealing with your DD's needs?

I only ask because when you have organically grown a routine any changes tend to happen within that framework. Things can get convoluted very quickly as we modify several steps in a row in order to change one thing. Sometimes we all need another pair of eyes, someone to gently say 'you don't need to do this, you're making work for yourself'.
I really, really think you would benefit from talking things through with other parents of ASD kids, we've usually been there!, and having a detached look at everything you do from Sun up to sleep - it may be there are ways things can be modified to make life easier. It can be slow to change a routine but can make heaps of difference.

Getting support for yourself & your daughter, getting school more responsible for help (which can make a big difference to home behavior if anxiety is lessened) is something that may make it easier for her to access mainstream schooling as she gets older & the social pressures increase. You shouldn't have to do everything all alone, getting school engaged can be difficult, it may not be the school for her, but the path of least resistantance for them is doing nothing. You both deserve support & help - it can make a huge difference.

Lueji · 06/03/2013 11:59

Not wanting to be harsh, but you do need to get there on time, or find ways for your DD to accept that she may go in with a different teacher.
Perhaps you could get some support regarding those issues, as well as to cope with refusing to walk because of a plane or a bike or something.

Even with other children sometimes they have their own things that end up delaying us.

My DS does not have SN, but he has had his days, including refusing to go to school. I have had to quickly think of strategies to acknowledge his issues, but at the same time get him moving on.

I'm not going to suggest anything because you know your child and what makes her tick.
But Autism forums may have more specific and helpful suggestions.

Hattifattner · 06/03/2013 12:00

OP, you could consider getting her a scooter, which might speed the walk to school up as she will be so busy whizzing up the path that she might not notice litter/dogs/aeroplanes etc.

I used to have my kids scoot to school - they could go on ahead "to the red car/lampost/phone box/corner" and Id catch up, so never zoomed off away too far. You can get great scooters with 2 wheels in front, which are easy to ride, or the thin 2 wheelers, which take a time to get the hang of (so you might want to get out a little earlier) - all in all, it could be a nice carrot to get her door to door a little more quickly.

cory · 06/03/2013 12:00

It's a balance, isn't it? Only you can judge whether feeling the odd one out is going to make her more or less upset than having meltdowns once or twice a week over not getting to school on time for the line-up.

I found the early years were full of these balancing decisions.

Catsdontcare · 06/03/2013 12:05

I have to confess when it snowed I kept DS off school altogether as it so massively screwed up the routine I just thought bollocks to it! Obviously not a long term solution but sometimes you just get defeated by it all.

cory · 06/03/2013 12:05

The hardest thing for me was to accept that dd's extra need for support meant that she had to feel the odd one out to some extent, to look different, to accept that she was different: that was the price we (and she) had to pay to get the support which she needed to function. It's tough. Sad

rodandtheemu · 06/03/2013 12:07

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pooka · 06/03/2013 12:07

Sorry - I think my posts were unnecessarily smug. And harsh. I just can't abide lateness - get panicky and edgy just thinking about hownid feel if we were late.

Looking at your routine, how about stealing 10mins from the 7-7.30 gap. So out of bed by 7.20?

Mine all eat breakfast before getting dressed. I tend not to vary what they eat - very sameish but comfortably so if you see what I mean.

My routine is this:

7am wake kids up
7.15 - 7.45 breakfast and pottering
7.30 onwards (depends when breakfast over and loading/unloading dishwasher) get youngest dressed, help middle one get dressed, eldest dresses herself.
8-8.20 kids read or potter, I get book bags and packed lunches in car, coats out and ready and shoes.
8.20 leave and drive to school.
8.40 arrive at school.
8.50 bell goes and kids go in.

Branleuse · 06/03/2013 12:08

if your daughter gets that upset and confused, you need to try harder. Improve your routine. She will appreciate it and so will the school. I appreciate how hard it is to get there on time with SN kids who have no sense of urgency and a poor sense of time. I struggle with timekeeping too, although thankfully mine dont get upset by changes in that way, and also we have a statement so his LSA will greet ds if we're late. Without a statement or a very understanding school, this is a battle you wont win, so your only option is to either get child dressed and ready earlier and leave with the plan to get their in advance and not at the last minute, or to prepare her and practise with her different scenarios and different ways to go into school. Maybe a social story about it?

Catsdontcare · 06/03/2013 12:09

Why will nothing ever work rodandtheemu? Hmm kind of wondering what the point of YOUR post is? Other than finding a fresh way to have a pop at the OP

pooka · 06/03/2013 12:10

Our school emphasises that the playground is unsupervised until 8.45 and therefore parents must NOT leave dcs unattended before then. Doesn't stop people, mind.

It is an insurance issue. Our school playground is open earlier, but the school could, if required, show numerous term,y reminders, excerpt from school parent contract and so on to prove that they have fully informed parents that children should be supervised until 8.45

maddening · 06/03/2013 12:12

I have no experience of autism but are there coping strategies that could help in the morning? Do you know it's going to be a hard morning when she gets up or can she become upset at any point in the morning?

If so on those mornings could you give her toast instead of cereal to avoid spillings?

Could you leave a pair of shoes in the car so if she hides them you just get her in the car and drive to also avoid running off etc. and the spare shoes are there ready to go?