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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I'm probably being entitled/unreasonable, but should the teacher wait on my child?

999 replies

WhenIsBedtime · 06/03/2013 09:59

My child has high functioning autism. Attends a mainstream school. Her issues are very mild. No need for an assistant or anything.

The way it works in the school yard each morning is this:

Bell goes at 9am.
All children run to their class marks and line up.
Class teachers come out, and guide them into the building, starting with the youngest to the oldest class.

My child is in the youngest class.

Perhaps once or twice a week, we're a few minutes late. The bell has already gone and her class has lined up by the time we reach the yard. However, we're never so late that her class has already gone inside by the time we arrive. We can always see them.

The entrance gate is at the other end of the huge yard from where the children line up.

On our late days, as we arrive at the gate, the teacher has already came out. He can see my dd running towards the line, but he decides to take the class inside anyway, without waiting on her.

By the time my (very slow) daughter reaches the place her class lines up, they are already inside the building, and the other classes are going inside.

My daughter then gets really upset as she doesn't understand it's okay to go through the door without her own teacher or class. She doesn't understand she should just run ahead of the next class going in, or even join their line instead. Parents aren't normally allowed in the yard. But when this happens, i run in to her and try and convince her to go into the building. But she says "No, I'm waiting on Mr Teacher and my class."

The teacher from an older class then takes her inside for me instead.

I realise such upset/confusion for my child wouldn't happen if i was there with her before 9am every day, but lateness does happen. And other children usually run into the yard up to five minutes late, behind us, but they quite happily join on the back of another class's line. Whereas my daughter won't without a heck of a lot of protest and causing a scene.

Personally (and here's where i'm probably being unreasonable), I think dd's teacher should wait on her if he sees dd running towards him and her class in the yard. It takes no more than a minute for her to run across the yard from the gate.

Obviously, if we weren't at the gate by the time he came out to greet the class, or if we were very late, i wouldn't expect him to wait. But when he can see dd at the other end of the yard, why can't he just wait? Thus avoiding her getting upset and confused?

I've spoken to him about it before, and he says that because his class is the youngest, and goes inside first, if he was to wait, it would delay all the other classes, and it would mean he'd have to occupy his own class for an additional minute.

Just wanted to add, that the children never have to wait outside in adverse weather conditions. They're able to go straight into the building on these days, rather than line up outside and wait on a teacher.

I just don't get why he can't wait an extra minute on dd, yet it's okay for him to be several minutes late on occassion, leaving his class waiting outside, holding up the other classes.

Sorry for the ramble. I'm probably just being precious/unreasonable, but i'd appreciate some opinions.

OP posts:
StuntGirl · 06/03/2013 11:36

Oh OP, this wasn't a thread about lateness was it? It's a cry for help - and no wonder with all you have to deal with!

There seem to be two main problems - 1) your daughter isn't coping as well as you've been led to believe and 2) the school are failing to support or help you and your daughter.

The school need to be doing more - much, much more. You need to go and speak to the head. They need to support your daughter. It sounds to me like she does need someone at school to help her, especially when she gets upset. Imagine if she had a nice assistant to help her every morning, someone part of her routine who could help calm her down if she has a meltdown when things go wrong.

The school could be doing things like opening the gate early, or letting you and your daughter in early and getting her settled before the class arrive.

Comments about her being the only one with a disability are ringing alarm bells too - my response would be "Good, it shouldn't be too difficult to deal with if she's the only one".

Have you any support at home? Are there any groups you go to who could help you?

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 06/03/2013 11:36

bedtime I haven't read all replies as there's several pages. Sorry if I repeat anything! Have you asked if someone can meet your dd at the gate? Maybe give her a job by taking her to go get the register for the class so she is last in class for an important reason? It would only take a TA or parent helper a minute or two.

What about getting her an mp3 or something so she can listen to her fave song on the way?

Sorry if these ideas sound crap , I'm just trying up think of things more constructive than "get up earlier" u get up early enough. What about star charts, check lists etc for each task in morning ?

Catsdontcare · 06/03/2013 11:37

Helponeanother, I think school's see lines as a good sign of disciplin and well behaved children when in fact they are just an opportunity for pushing, shoving, que jumping and general silliness. Honestly half the time when DS complains about some in his class it starts with "when we were lining up for...."

I know lining up is necessary in school, you can't just have a free for all but I do question what it actually achieves at the beginning of the day.

cory · 06/03/2013 11:38

I like this one, Stuntgirl, wish I'd thought of it:

"Comments about her being the only one with a disability are ringing alarm bells too - my response would be "Good, it shouldn't be too difficult to deal with if she's the only one"." Grin

WhenIsBedtime · 06/03/2013 11:38

Hello, again.

Okay, i've had a good cry and feeling much better now. Sorry about that.

I've read through all the replies so far (sorry if i decide to ignore some of the rude ones), and i want to thank you for the advice.

I realise i was acting unreasonable by asking and expecting the teacher to wait for a minute when he sees dd. My reasoning was that although it would delay the classes by a minute, it would stop her delaying the older classes by 5-10 minutes when she kicks off at the stairs.

But obviously, if he waited for my child, he'd have to wait for the other 'stragglers' too, and they'd never get in.

I've tried taking her in the Main Office way, but dd loves lining up and being in the right position (always at the back) of her class line, and her teacher will compliment her on waiting quietly, and sometimes ask her to stand beside him and help lead the class in. The Main Entrance is only if you arrive in the yard once all the classes have gone in, and the janitor is locking the gates.

The gate doesn't open until 8.45 because the school doesn't accept responsibility for children before that time. there used to be a lot of parents dropping kids off at 8.30 and then going to work etc. The janitor comes out at 8.45 to unlock the gates now hoping it prevents people from leaving their younger children alone.

If i got there before the gates opened, dd would end up running onto the Main Road next to the school.

I think it would help if i posted my exact routine (since many people think i don't have one at all). On a typical day:

5.30 - I wake up. get some paperwork done. I can only do this when dd sleeps. She's up and down most of the evening and night, so this time works best for me.

6.30 - I get washed and dressed (I shower the night before)

7.00 - I wake up dd. She doesn't get out of bed until around 7.30 though, as she's so tired. Sometimes she'll get out okay meaning we have time to draw or read after we're all ready.

7.30 - Get her dressed. I like to do this before breakfast, as it can sometimes take up to an hour, and then we won't have time for a sit down breakfast. So i like to get it out of the way, so we're not very late. Hair brushed too.

8.00 - Breakfast. So long as there are no problems, such as getting upset about the wrong spoon, or tipping it over herself, this takes 20 minutes to eat. She's a very slow eater.

8.30 - Teeth brushed, face and hands washed.

8.35 - Shoes and coat on.

8.40 - Head to school.

8.45 - Arrive at school just as gates are unlocked.

This is on a good day.

I have uniform ironed, and laid out the night before. packed lunches are all made and put in the fridge. Shoes are cleaned and put at the door, Coat and gloves etc are hung on a chair. Reading book is put in her bag. Everything's done the night before.

Thanks for the suggestions such as taking breakfast with us, or putting a t-shirt over uniform. I've tried using a special apron, but sometimes she'll not want to wear it. I'm just wondering how i'd brush her teeth though if she has her breakfast outside.

OP posts:
Catsdontcare · 06/03/2013 11:39

I really hope the OP ha been frightened off for good

Catchingmockingbirds · 06/03/2013 11:39

I did raise an eyebrow at the "my daughter is the only one in the school with autism" comment. How big is the school? One in 88 are now diagnosed with an ASD, I don't believe the op's dd is the only one in the whole school. The school should have at least dealt with others with SN/SEN so would have some sort of relevant experience surely. They should have never made this comment to the OP, as this would only make her feel isolated.

Catsdontcare · 06/03/2013 11:40

X post!

MamaOgg · 06/03/2013 11:40

You're all right, I didn't read the whole thread. My fault, I'm sorry you're upset OP, you're probably best having this thread moved to SN. It's indefensible to have upset you further, as an excuse I am sitting in the cold waiting on another mother who is always late and it's never her fault.

TheBigJessie · 06/03/2013 11:41

WhenIsBedtime I'm not sure I have anything useful to say, but I wanted to tell you to ignore the "get up earlier" comments.

StuntGirl
Comments about her being the only one with a disability are ringing alarm bells too - my response would be "Good, it shouldn't be too difficult to deal with if she's the only one".

That's what I was thinking, except less concisely, and with added bemusement!

WhenIsBedtime · 06/03/2013 11:42

The comment about my child being the only one was autism wasn't meant in a mean way by staff.

It was said at a meeting before my dd started the school. the HT said it, and that they'd never had a pupil with an autism diagnosis before. I thought it was very honest. She sent her staff on a training course over the summer in preparation.

And whenever i bring something up at consequent meetings, the HT will say they're still learning too, as they've never had a pupil with autism before.

OP posts:
Catsdontcare · 06/03/2013 11:43

Can you go in the car and sit and wait for the gates to open. We are literally a two minute walk from school but on bad days I drive and we wait in the car til I know the door will be open (mostly because ds1 gets so upset seeing his younger brother kick off at school)

akaemmafrost · 06/03/2013 11:44

The fuckwittedness on this thread defies belief Shock Sad

OP as others have said get yourself over to SN. I've a thread running there at the moment about my dd's issues at school. Not the same as yours but lovely supportive responses.

For everyone bleating get there earlier, I can't get there earlier. Dd would become extremely stressed out if she had to wait in line too long or even have a run round if I was there. She can only do that if I am not with her. Why? I don't know, it's just an aspect of her ASD, massive anxiety surrounding the cross over between school and home, so me being there at school for too long is out of context and stresses her out. So basically we enter the gates at 8.59, slot her into line and in she goes. If we're late by even one minute and the lines moving that stresses her out too. It's an infinitely fine juggling act and so far I have managed 99% of the time god knows how

There is just so much to consider with these kids, more than parents of NT children could begin to comprehend.

DontmindifIdo · 06/03/2013 11:45

I would aim to start getting her ready more like 7 - 7:15am ish. If she wants to draw etc, do that after breakfast and dressed. If need be, brush teeth then have breakfast on route - not ideal.

However, you need to talk to the school about ways they could help you. I would suggest they are causing the problem by not allowing you to be early. If the gate could be unlocked at 8:30am, that would mean you could confidentally start getting her to school earlier to avoid this. If you were aiming for 8:30am, if you ended up being 10-20minutes late, you are still on time. They are giving a very small window of opportunity to arrive at school for a child with SEN, it might be worth pointing that out. If they won't do that, explain she will therefore be regularly late so they need to talk about ways they can deal with her arriving late.

Catsdontcare · 06/03/2013 11:45

If the school are still learning and open to suggestions then I definitely think you need to see the HT and say how can we make morning drop offs work because the current system is just setting dd up for a terrible start to the day

bangwhizz · 06/03/2013 11:45

I think you should maybe work with the school to establish a new routine whereby you take her in each day.Would be better for your DD as even when she is late the routine is unchanged and also means she doesn't delay anyone else.
I don't get this lining up on the playground thing, at our school they just drift in as they arrive.

hugoagogo · 06/03/2013 11:45

This isn't working, time to talk to the school about setting something up whereby your dd can have the same routine every morning, like the suggestion upthread of going through reception.

AIBU is not a good place to post about these things as you can see. Sad

DesiderataHollow · 06/03/2013 11:46

Do the school have a breakfast club? Would that solve the breakfast problem, and be something your child would enjoy adding to the routine and also get her safely into school a bit earlier? Or would it add to the possibilities for melt-down?

cory · 06/03/2013 11:46

Looks a good routine to me.

But you may find that something in it has to give to keep your dd from becoming distressed on a regular basis, because that is really quite upsetting for her.

Either accept for a bit that she does eat after she has cleaned her teeth (she will still have cleaned away the bacteria that gather in the night).

Or try to get her to accept a new routine of going in through the school office and getting special praise and a job to do there (and the school will then have to open up to accommodate her, as part of their Reasonable Adjustments). Whereismycaffeine's suggestion of a special reason for going in through the office is a good one.

Remember you are entitled to ask the school to change their routines in the name of your dd's disability, but it needs to be a case of working with them so as to cause the minimum of disruption.

rainingcatsandsprogs · 06/03/2013 11:47

Sorry its so hard for you at the moment OP, some posters have already said most of what I'd say but one more idea - I know the gate doesn't open until 8.45 but presumably there's alternate access to the school available before then, for staff. Could you arrange with school that you can take dd to school and in early if you get there before 8.45, and sit with her in her classroom/spare space and read or something, then take her back out to join her line about 8.50ish? Then you can ensure you've got her to school, you can have quiet time waiting where she won't be running out onto the road, you could even give her part of her breakfast if it was something you'd taken with you and if she has a meltdown about something and delays you at the last minute she's in school anyway, you can take your time and wait for the other kids to be in class before trying to get her to class. If the teacher is very reasonable maybe he could even agree to collect her from you on his way to go and get the class and she can help him get the class in.

BeerTricksPotter · 06/03/2013 11:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rainingcatsandsprogs · 06/03/2013 11:47

X-posted massively, ah well!

Catsdontcare · 06/03/2013 11:47

I would even go as far as to ask that you and your dd can be allowed to enter the school gates before 8.45 so that your dd can wait in a safe environment. I don't see why that should cause them a problem as you won't be leaving her.

BabyMakesTheBellyGoRound · 06/03/2013 11:48

I would really rethink getting her dressed before breakfast or if you must than maybe getting solid breakfasts (sausages,brioche,crossaint etc) other than cereal.
Cut your getting ready time so there's no drawing time,and maybe on the two minute walk do something like What can we see that's yellow/blue/red.

WhatchaMaCalllit · 06/03/2013 11:48

Can you talk to your daughter and explain that if she doesn't get dressed in time she doesn't line up in time and then that makes her upset? Can you reason with her like that? I don't know how to explain myself properly here but if she knows and understands that by not getting dressed in time, it has a knock on effect to her being on time and lining up for teacher then maybe she will not make you and by association her late? Is something like that possible?

In relation to asking the teacher to wait, I wouldn't. I would be trying to sort it out at home first.

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