To expect that a mum supervises the children on a play date?

[Livvilou]

Please bear with this long post. At my DDs school play dates are common. I am not so bothered about them as I didn't go to people's houses when I was a child. My DD went to a child's house the mother told me she would pick her up from school. I called later and it seemed to me the mother was not at her house as expected. I sent my DH to pick up our daughter and the mother of the child said she had run an errand and left my DD with her partner and her daughter. Her partner had also picked up my DD from school but I didn't even know his name, he has only ever said hello to me and she said she would pick up my DD. my DD didn't have a good time at the playdate because her daughter didn't want to play with my DD because another friend of hers was also at the house. The same mother asked if my DD could go on another play date and this time I spoke to her about what happened last time. She claimed to have no knowledge of the fact that her daughter didn't want to play with mine. Which is ludicrous as she told this to my husband when he came to pick up DD and my DD told me what happened too.
Today my DD went to another child house. This child was supposed to come to our house and this morning her father tell me she wants my DD to come to her house. I said this isn't what has been agreed. The father says he asked his daughter today and she wanted my DD to come to their house. He then asks my DD if she wants to go to their house. Of course she says yes. I was livid! The mother made the original appointment with me, and didn't tell me she would be working. I dropped my DD off at the house and her friend comes to the door in a vest and pants and I wonder what she is doing. Her father says she is dressing up. I pick my DD up an hour later and find that she has also been dressing up and has to put her trousers and socks on before she can go home with me. I do not feel happy having my DD being supervised my male partners. I am not saying that anything has happened but I can't imagine why this isn't seen as strange. My DH spoke with our DD and told her she is not to undress at anyone's house and she said the house was really hot, and she is right as I remember thinking that as I stood at the living room door. I understand that dads also look after their kids and i think that is great, but in the climate that we live today, I need to feel I am doing every thing I can to keep my DD safe without being paranoid. Any thoughts as I have been in a distressed state all day. Not only because a 5 year old managed to change the plans, but because I feel now I have to explain myself to keep my DD safe. I am sure I will upset someone if I say what I really want, ie. for the mother to be there at the play date. I have felt terrible all day from the worry.

It's ridiculous that the majority of parents at my 4 year old's school are happy to do this because it's seen as the norm...but the same parents wont let 8 and 9 year old's play outside on the lawn...in a cul de sac!

I am in a minority as I will not allow sleepovers until year 6 at least, then with a good friend that I know and know the parents (granted I do not always know the Dad actually)...

Ah but look at the attitudes on this thread MrsMushroom - some would presumably be happy for their child to go off with a friend's dad who they didn't know rather than stand accused of having paedo hysteria. Yet get them on a thread about using baby alarms in hotels and suddenly they are screaming child abuse!

But again, everyone has different experiences which shapes their judgement.

imnotmymum - same here. Although at dd's first sleepover I got a sharp shock. I knew the mother quite well, she had a lot to do with the school and was well thought of by other mums and teachers. I also had met the father a couple of times and thought he was ok. I had never been to the house, but I knew where it was.

dd was asked for a sleepover at this friend's house and I agreed. I had their numbers and they had mine. They collected her from school - I was there to take her bags from her and give her a change of clothing. All was fine. I went to pick her up the next day and couldn't believe what I saw when I stepped into the house....

....wall to wall animals. Tropical lizards, snakes, spiders, fish all in tanks. Dozens of cats as well as 2 dogs. Hamsters, rats, etc. The house stank and was covered in hair with flies buzzing round the kitchen. I was horrified.

I now know the family slightly better and I know that they have a different way of life than mine. Their standards might be different but essentially they are a good hearted family and dd has stopped over only a couple of times since. But it did make me realise that people can still surprise you. You might think you know someone, but do you really?

I now make sure that I've visited their homes before I let my kids go on any other sleepovers - and I am on first name terms with both their parents.

Rhubarb I know...it's bizzarre. I let my 8 yearold and almost 5 year old play outside our house on the lawn...it's a quiet cul de sac. Other children on the street wave to them from the safety of their houses....not allowed out.

I can SEE the DC from my window...they are primed...know the rules....why is that seen as dangerous and yet letting them go to a strangers home...with God knows who in and out...is ok? I agree about the not REALLY knowing people till you've seen their way of life.

Op, Like MagicHouse (who was the last parent to stay at parties for nearly 7 (yes, 7 yr olds !! ), I worry about these parents.
Why are they so helicopterish? Why are they so cotton woolish. How is over-protective, good parenting? It is not.

Please don't waste your time worrying about me! I said I stayed at some of the parties - generally the ones in a massive hall or swimming parties. I even got in the pool once to help supervise - maybe that makes me cotton woolish?? If I do stay I drink coffee and chat to the other paranoid mums and dads while our kids get on with it!! We're surprisingly normal actually!

I also stick by my comments. If the OP is worried about leaving her 5 year old with a stranger, that's not unreasonable (or even remotely odd in my book). It gets easier as your child gets older OP, and you get to know and chat to her friends and friends' parents more, and the whole tea/ parties/ social life thing gets more familiar.

My whole point was that it doesn't get easier as they get older. WhenDS was 9 years we moved areas- didn't know anyone. Obviously they need to make friends and if they get invited to a friend's house you can't suggest that you go too. The parents will not want to come to you, they will be working, transporting siblings to swimming lessons etc. Even if you don't move friendships are not static, they may no longer be friends with the DC they started school with, the new best friend may be a child that you don't know at all- they may be new to the school. I can tell you that you don't feel any happier about it at 9yrs - or at secondary where they want to have a sleepover with a child you haven't met.
You do have to deal with it and make judgements - you can't stifle your DCs social life. If you know and trust the mother enough to let your 5yr old visit her house for a couple of hours without you I would assume that her DP will be fine with a 5yr old girl without the child's mother keeping him under control! I wouldn't let my 5 year old go to a house where I thought the mother had a very dodgy choice of men.

I just meant letting your child go to tea/ parties gets easier - in as much as you get used to making decisions about what is reasonable/ safe.... I hadn't really thought about sleepovers yet, but yes I can imagine I'll worry about letting my children stay away for the night for the first few times. And probably will have a tiny worry every time after that!
I agree with you exoticfruits - it's all about making judgements and dealing with your own worries so that you keep your children safe without stifling a normal social life.

I would not let my 5 year old go anywhere without me ...(well I do not have a 5 year old now but no way would I have let them go for tea at 5 )

You may not let your 5yr old go anywhere without you but in 12 or so months- and it goes very quickly - you have to start letting them. If you don't let them socialise out of school they get left behind in friendships. I can't really see why it gets easier - you still have to make the judgement and decide whether a woman had a normal, family man, husband or one who is only safe if he is in her sight and under her control for the whole 2 hours of the visit.

I don't think that you need to worry about him being a man- (the mind boggles as to what you expect him to do on a short afternoon visit)- my worry would be more to do with safety - are they the sort of family to lock away medicines, keep them off the road- more that sort of thing.

I have a 9, 11, 12 and 14 so been there and no I did not let them go for tea or anything until year 4 I think and I do not believe they get left behind socially . I can count on one hand how many times actually been somewhere and all are have great friendship circles. I guess I am lucky as I was SAHM and now work a lot from home with the odd lecture so I did not need to use play dates as baby sitting. Also having 4 children it is easier to keep them entertained at home.

Exotic, there is s risk at any age, this is true. However, by 9 one would hope that as a parent you have done your job preparing your child for these risks (being assertive, speaking out, trusting your instincts) A child at 5 is less able to grasp certain concepts than a 9 year old.
Having said that, even at 9 I would want to,know who is looking after my child and would be upset about plans being changed without being informed.

Year 4!

How incredibly sad.

Why sad?? In fact I have this age in my head as my children were home schooled until 7ish so were out socialising with home ed groups all day. Oh seeker sad-dear dear I can think of more ways that a child may lead an awful life as to not going somewhere for tea or whatever until 7ish- oh and no sleepovers until year 6... I believe kids have to have something to look forward to and grow up for.

One of the problems of home schooling- the mother controls the friendships and there is no question of them finding a friend unknown to the parent. Lovely for the parent of course.
I have had to deal with some incredibly anxious DCs because they suddenly get to something like a year 6 residential visit and the parent has had no build up - I remember one anguished girl who kept saying 'but I haven't even had a sleepover' - she went in the end and loved it- but there was no need to put her through all that first.

Ha Ha! Well my kids have been to Summer camps, and on residential with school and my 14 year old just came back from Spain with school and is totally non perplexed. I believe that if you have a loving stable family home and bring your children up to be self confident and supported this is much more worthwhile than going to friends house at 5 years old.
I find it strange you think Mother controls the friendship a group of home ed children vs School setting what the difference they make their allies with whoever. They made a good transition to state schooling well and I believe this is down to self confidence as not been out the house from 4 for a school day . Of course it it horse for course this worked for us and m,ay not for some c'est la vie.

I never used play dates as a babysitting service! Friends asked them round and I asked them if they wanted to go.

Maybe you did not I am not talking about you personally just I know some do.

Exactly- you are not going going to bring them up as self confident if you get in a state because a father was unsupervised by the mother in his own home.

And I agree exotic exactly what you say I agree that it is at the Father bit.

I utterly despair at this, what kind of world are we living in where this kind of thought is becoming normalised.

What type of thought ?

Can I just interject here?

This style of comment - and not singling out one particular poster has amused me no end:

Im always amazed that parents agree to have their children picked up by another parent without even knowing where that parent lives on the strength of a friendship the children have built in school.

The best way to handle play dates for the younger age group is to make sure you host the first one that way you get to see the relationship between the children and which ever parent comes to collect - you can have a chat with them and get to know them a bit better

Riiiiiiiiiiiight! So here we that the thought train that "you" come from a "normal" hosuehold and the other parents need "vetting"? What happens if the other parent considers themselves "normal" and "you" are the one under scrutiny?

Just to clarify - other children can come to your house, but yours cannot go to theirs, without the vetting procedure in place?

Excellent! Of course chatting to someone on the doorstep/school gate is such a bone fide way of ^knowing" whether there is a mad axe murderer behind closed doors isn't it?

MN bizarre logic at its best.

I understand your concern as you don't know the family, but I think we have to remember it's a minority of people who might be a danger to our children. I guess you have to go with what you feel comfortable with though. Perhaps make your own rule for your family that your DC's have to be supervised by someone you know well in future for your own peace of mind ? Try not to worry though. I'm sure she was fine and playing dressing up with her friend at 5 is a very normal thing to do