To expect that a mum supervises the children on a play date?

[Livvilou]

Please bear with this long post. At my DDs school play dates are common. I am not so bothered about them as I didn't go to people's houses when I was a child. My DD went to a child's house the mother told me she would pick her up from school. I called later and it seemed to me the mother was not at her house as expected. I sent my DH to pick up our daughter and the mother of the child said she had run an errand and left my DD with her partner and her daughter. Her partner had also picked up my DD from school but I didn't even know his name, he has only ever said hello to me and she said she would pick up my DD. my DD didn't have a good time at the playdate because her daughter didn't want to play with my DD because another friend of hers was also at the house. The same mother asked if my DD could go on another play date and this time I spoke to her about what happened last time. She claimed to have no knowledge of the fact that her daughter didn't want to play with mine. Which is ludicrous as she told this to my husband when he came to pick up DD and my DD told me what happened too.
Today my DD went to another child house. This child was supposed to come to our house and this morning her father tell me she wants my DD to come to her house. I said this isn't what has been agreed. The father says he asked his daughter today and she wanted my DD to come to their house. He then asks my DD if she wants to go to their house. Of course she says yes. I was livid! The mother made the original appointment with me, and didn't tell me she would be working. I dropped my DD off at the house and her friend comes to the door in a vest and pants and I wonder what she is doing. Her father says she is dressing up. I pick my DD up an hour later and find that she has also been dressing up and has to put her trousers and socks on before she can go home with me. I do not feel happy having my DD being supervised my male partners. I am not saying that anything has happened but I can't imagine why this isn't seen as strange. My DH spoke with our DD and told her she is not to undress at anyone's house and she said the house was really hot, and she is right as I remember thinking that as I stood at the living room door. I understand that dads also look after their kids and i think that is great, but in the climate that we live today, I need to feel I am doing every thing I can to keep my DD safe without being paranoid. Any thoughts as I have been in a distressed state all day. Not only because a 5 year old managed to change the plans, but because I feel now I have to explain myself to keep my DD safe. I am sure I will upset someone if I say what I really want, ie. for the mother to be there at the play date. I have felt terrible all day from the worry.

Blimey Scottish, carry on love. Not too sharp eh?

"wiki isn't go to for psychiatry"

Please educate me, seeing as I'm obviously soooooo stupid.

Oh lol,at your indignant ire.gosh do you feel teensy weensy bit offended.diddums
So go figure,you got hump at getting called on your Inappropriate comments
try so e-m-p-a-t-h-y how may op feel at your and others Inappropriate comments

No ire. Defintely no indignant ire. I am not offended. I stand by everything I wrote. I don't think anything I said was inappropriaet.
Its you, using all the patronising words: 'teensy weensy', etc. I haven't stooped so low as to resort to such vocab.
You haven't managed to 'call me up' on anything I wrote, I'm afraid.

You'll not retort to me?
But you'll berate someone else in her absence,knowing she unlikely to return
Funny that

Never mind op,dust self down put it down to experience
No one really recalls who said what anyhow
Treat mn as words on a screen and you'll be just fine

I think its normal for fathers to host playdates, and I think its normal for children to dress up. Many fathers are the main carer for their child, so you aren't going to be able to insist that all playdates are 'chaperoned' by the mother.

However, I also think its normal to want to get to know other families at your child's school before dropping your child off at a stranger's house, particularly when your child is only 5. The best way to do this is to look for opportunities to become involved in the school and try to organise initial playdates so that either they are at your house and you invite the other parent in for a coffee, or you take your child to the playdate and hope that the other parent will want to be sociable with you and invite you in for a coffee. (You don't necessarily have to stay for more than 10 minutes - just enough time to get the lay of the land and decide whether your child will need to be rescued earlier than planned).

(I understand that it is often easier not to have a strange parent in your house to entertain as well as their child, but I think that when children are in reception, getting to know other parents is the friendly thing to do).

Berating someone in thier abscense, knowing they are unlikely to return?
Oh please. what a load of tosh.
So, on threads on MN, you are not allowed to express and opinion, unless the Op returns every x/y/z posts.
Thats utterly ridiculous.
I have and hade no idea wehther she's going to return or not. I did not post with that in mind. I am thought that people were allowed to post, as they wanted, in their own time, irrespective of whether the OP was there or not. Or is thta another of your new rules?
You are picking at really really petty things here.

therubarb what a great post.
Im utterly astounded at the down right bullying ive just read on here! I totally get where the OP is coming from.

MN is supposed to be a place of support and advice but often ends up in a good mauling.
Or simply do away with the AIBU threads altogether as they serve no purpose except to provide entertainment for the masses of wankers who delight in bullying others what an on point quote!

You have to bear in mind that 5yrs is very young- you have a lot if control but they will get older and they will pick their own friends. You are not going to know all the parents and you can't attend play dates ( I hate that term!) with them as they get older. At secondary school they will want to do things with parents you never even see. You have to find a way of preparing your DC to trust their judgement and deal with problems. You have to deal with your own anxiety. I think this will be more difficult if you can't trust your own judgement. If you are comfortable with the child and the mother why would they have a partner/father who can't be trusted with a child for 2hours without inappropriate behaviour? If you are not comfortable with the child or the mother then why are you agreeing in the first place.
I agree that OP has had a very hard time, and it is unfortunate that she tried AIBU, but I find it quite insulting that another child has made a friend of mine, has seen me, agreed to a play date and thinks that her DC is only safe from my DH if I supervise him. He is an equal parent- he is not my extra child that I give instructions. We are interchangeable. When my youngest was 5yrs I had a DH and a 15yr old DS- it never occurred to me that I needed to announce this just because they happened to be male.

I think the person you organise the playdate with has taken responsibility for that playdate and is obligated to stay and supervise.

If DH arranged a playdate with a kid from DS2's nursery (he does the run for that) and then dumped the kids on me, I would be pretty peeved to be honest.

It isn't that hard to sort out is it? When I am arranging with another parent to have their kids over I would let them know if I was intending to go out and leave them with DH and I would let DH know ahead of time that that was the plan.

I have dropped DS1 off places (he is older now so it isn't such a big deal) and had the Mum mention that she was intending to run out or whatever and they would be with Dad or older sibling for a bit.

Is just courtesy.

Oblomov - the comment about posters being 7 years old was not directed at you but the arses who pulled her to bits for using the phrases "playdate" and "in this day and age". Surely even you can agree that pulling the OP apart for the turn of phrase she chooses to use is beyond insulting and smacks of bullying?

Oblomov I have no axe to grind with you. However I see nothing in the OP's later posts that would call for counselling. What I see is a new mum who is being torn apart by complete and utter arseholes and who is getting defensive. To be quite honest, I would have probably done the same.

I do not know enough about the OP to comment on her mental state but suggesting that someone suffers from paranoia because you disagree with their style of parenting is both arrogant and insulting.

My style of parenting differs from yours. My worries and concerns differ from yours. My upbringing differs from yours. This does not make you right and myself wrong. It makes us different.

There is no rule of parenting. There is nothing written down that states quite categorically at what age children should go on playdates, how they should be supervised and how you are supposed to feel about it. As a new mum she is pretty much making it up as she goes along. Therefore her concerns and worries are as valid as anyone else's.

It's so easy to sit back in our ivory towers and berate those making probably the same mistakes we made when we were young and struggling with our first babies. Some of us might have had close and supportive family, some of us might have been completely alone. I don't know what the OP's situation is but the fact that she came here for advice would suggest that she wasn't sure where to turn to and needed a little support.

Did she get that support?

This is supposed to be a community of parents who support each other in the tough job of parenting. It's become instead a playground where bullies goad each other on, where new parents have their mental state questioned and analysed for all to see, where unless you fit in with the crowd you are deemed a nutjob.

I'm ashamed to be part of it sometimes.

I ask you all to think of one time in your lives as parents when you really needed help and support. Now think about how you would feel if this was the kind of response you got.

Livvilou if you are still reading this then I am very sorry that you have had your mental wellbeing questioned and your parenting judged. Trust me, this is not a true reflection of Mumsnet at all.

Just a true reflection of AIBU which generally ends like this and is not for the faint hearted!

My daughter's rule is that before a play date there is a coffee and play session with the other mum and dc. First at one house then the other. She and her dh know the parents. It is a small close knit school. I wouldn't like small dc picked up by a man they didn't know either.

What a fantastic post, THERhubarb. Well said.

You have to bear in mind thegreylady that you have to move on from that position-once your DC gets to secondary school you can't operate like that and they need to trust their own judgement.

Imagine someone was saying they did not want your DH picking up their child or looking after their child. OP you were "livid" at the Dad in question. Do not let your sexist , unfounded views come across to your own children. When our kids were little we had a great male baby sitter who the kids adored; OP men can do child care too you know !!

It's reasonable to expect to know who is going to be collecting your DD from school and supervising them, yes.
I wouldn't have a problem if it was a DH or DW, either parent would be fine as long as I knew because my DCs would want to know who was collecting them.

exoticfruits, of course you move from that position. Rules from when children are 5 to 15 change considerably. I was still helping my 5yr old to go to the toilet - I doubt I thought I'd still be doing that when he was at secondary school!

imnotmymum - the OP's main gripe was that she did not know these men. She had made arrangements with the mothers whom she knew, but then the fathers who she didn't know, turned up. Her child didn't know them either.

It is unfortunate that some posters picked up on the fact that they were the dads and bullied and picked on the OP to try and goad her into saying something sexist. I actually think most of her responses were quite measured in view of the beating she was getting. Not one of her responses was deleted. She managed not to get personal which is more than can be said for some other posters.

It doesn't matter if the parent is male or female. If your 5 year old child is visiting a parent's home for a playdate is it important that you know who they are going with. Now these parents obviously didn't think it mattered that the father showed up instead, but the OP did. How can you warn your child about going off with strangers when you send them off with a complete stranger?

Just because they are fathers, it doesn't make them any less of a stranger to the OP and her daughter.

I wouldn't think twice if it was my dh rather than myself at home. The only thing that myself and dh do is check with each other beforehand that it is ok for school friends to come over.

I do think at 5 years old it is important for parents to meet with each other beforehand though.

That's fine simplesusan because you obviously know, love and trust your dh. But if I were to turn up at your door to collect my 5yo dd and your husband, who I didn't know and had never met before, answered and it transpired that you, who I did know, weren't there I might be a little put out by that.

The inference is that if I don't know you then neither does my dd and she might be a little uncomfortable telling a strange man should anything go wrong or she wanted to come home.

I have to admit that I have nipped out before now and left my dh in charge but I've always made sure that it was ok with both kids first and I've always been back in time for when his/her parents arrived to pick them up. I would feel incredibly rude otherwise.

But then that's just me. Others aren't so bothered. I think you are a lot more protective of your first and maybe a little paranoid - aren't we all as parents?

Rhubarb I totally get you. But I also think people are far too cavalier about sending tiny kids off to strangers homes to play.

Yes I agree Mrs it surprises me at some kids they always seem to be somewhere other than home!
THERh yes I know she did not know them but they are the Father of the kids and the Mother's partner and I think livid was an exaggeration

MrsMushroom yes me too and that attitude is perhaps what surprised the OP.

imnotmymum - yes but they are still strangers. To be fair I would be just as livid. It is not fair on the OP or her dd to expect her to allow her dd to go off with a strange man. Whether or not he is the girl's father and partner of the mum, he's still a stranger and I think it's foolish to presume it's ok because he's a husband and father.

Ditto with women.

I would be livid because it would put me in an awkward situation and would show that they obviously haven't considered mine or my child's feelings. I mean, at what point would you get livid? When they send an older brother or sister to collect the kids? An uncle? A friend?

It's just not on. If you make an arrangement to collect a child for a playdate then you keep that arrangement. You don't send someone else in your place, someone neither the mother or child knows.