To feel so upset regarding contact.

[MakeItUpAsYouGoAlong]

Some of you may know my backstory from the nature of my post. I namechanged a while ago and have been trying to put the past behind me and move forward with 5mo DD.
Me and my ex have a rather volatile relationship. He didn't want me to keep DD. since she has been born he hasn't provided physically or emotionally. He pays half the maintainence he should.
I tried to keep him seeing DD, him coming here, me there (2.5 hour drive). Supervised by me.
I don't want or agree with any child been taken away from their father but he is so inconsistent and to put it bluntly useless it had crossed my mind that it may be better if he goes away.
He has had a new girlfriend who seems to have taken priority since when I was 5 months pregnant.
It's now 22 days since any contact with him. He's ignored my attempts to send pictures and updates and is like to know if I am BU by thinking this is not acceptable and letting it upset me.
I'm a bit of a wreck today. I know this is AIBU but please try to be gentle.

The solicitors do think go for a contact order. I just can't afford it at all at the minute in 7 weeks I can get legal aid

Make it'll be fine, get that order and he cant moan or bully.

Firstly I've read through most of this thread and am sorry you are going through all this.

I just wanted to point out that the fathers name on the BC does not automatically give parental responsibility, unmarried fathers have no legal rights at all over a child unless they are granted parental responsibility by a court, name on BC or not and even if they are paying CSA. The law falls very much in favour of unmarried mothers as it was basically developed to protect them.

Neither your exp nor his family have any legal right over your child until granted by a judge and you are doing exactly the right thing by documenting all contact or lack thereof as this will support you if it does go as far as court.

KJ Your actually right, i remembered that my friends DB, was awarded PR despite his name still not being on the birth certificate.

After researching is found this:

As a dad, you automatically get PR if:
You are married to your baby's mum when he is born.
Your baby was born after December 1, 2003 (when a new law was introduced), and you are named as his father on the birth certificate.

The law was actually changed.

But i did find this:

Does having PR mean I have the right to see my child?

No, that's a separate issue. PR does not give you extra rights, or strengthen your claim for contact with your child if you and his mum ever decided to split up.

Ah, I knew there were plans to change it but didn't realise it had already happened! Still doesn't give him an automtic right to contact though, you just have to keep him updated regarding the childs wellbeing

If PR does not give fathers extra rights, as opposed to fathers who do not have PR, what is the point of PR for fathers?

Is it just to ensure that the mother messages the father every now and then to let him know how his child is?

Genuine question btw, because I thought we had come so much further in support of fathers, but from the last few posts, it appears we haven't actually moved on very much at all in treating fathers as equal parents.

Am even happier to be a mother now than I was before I read that, even though for the good fathers out there, that is surely not a good thing.

PR i think is basically so fathers have the right to make decisions regarding the child, unfortunately, some genuinely good fathers still have to fight the volcano before they can see their kids.

My solicitor always explained PR as responsibility for the child, where they live, supporting them etc, making sure their needs are met.
My solicitor said that all parents who have PR begin from the same starting point, they both have PR, and therefore both have responsibility for the child equally.

If the parents then find they cannot agree on residency or contact, the courts will make a decision in the best interests of the child. This is when one parent may be awarded residency and the other parent contact, as stipulated in the court order.

If no court appointed residency or court appointed contact has been granted, it is up to the parents to try to resolve things amicably in the best interests of the child, which obviously some parents don't or can't do.

My barrister told me that unless residency is established via a court, neither parent has more right than the other to have the child reside with them, although upon the matter going to court, the court generally uphold the status quo, so if a child has been living with the mother, the child will remain there, so long as there is no significant risk of abuse obviously.

My barrister said the law was changed (from custody) to give parents equal responsibility for their children and I was not to think I had any more right to dictate based on my position as mother to a child rather than father because it no longer worked that way. Mothers had always had the major say in decision making on thier children's behalf but that the law was changed to make things fairer for fathers children.

Mind you, I last went to court 2 and a half years ago, so that advice might be outdated, so I shall leave this thread now, because I am not sure if the advice I am giving is correct.
All I will say is that when I went to court, XP was awarded alternate overnight weekend contact, and DD was still a baby. XP also had no idea how to look after a baby and certainly not to my satisfaction, but the court saw it as XP had people he could call on for support, either his mum or his latest g/f.
There was no way the court were going to let contact happen in a contact centre, even though XP had more reason than lots of men to be supervised and that was nothing to do with his ailing parenting.
I was also told contact centre's are almost always a temporary solution, are very much in demand and usually reserved for parents where either NRP was violent, had been charged with serious offences, or contact had broken down and neither parent could find a third party for handover. If contact centre's were used for parents to satisfy their need to know the other parent could cope, they would be over run, but that may just be my area.

Also, XP was allowed unsupervised access straightaway, even though he admitted he didn't have the first idea of how to look after a baby.

There was no way on God's green earth any court was going to force XP to be supervised by my mother (or anyone else of my choosing without XP's full consent), whom he found intimidating, and tbqh, didn't like very much.

I appreciate though that things may have changed since then. I was a little concerned that OP may go to court only to find her XP is awarded unsupervised overnight access, but maybe they wont do this. I'm not sure how you prove he is incapable of looking after a baby if he has never been left alone to look after a baby.

I was concerned the court may see it as 'he said, she said' but if OP has proof of how he is not capable, rather than just her word for it, then that's great.

When my friends DB went to court (ex ignored all mediation), he was only offered contact centre first, every fortnight, had to attend parenting classes, to make sure he was an able father, the child is nearly 18 months and he still isnt allowed over nights.

So it seems craps dads are fine, good dads are devils work.

I have long thought the court system favours contact with fathers above and beyond what is in the best interests of the child, so I suspect you probably have a point there Greg.

Thank you for all the advice and research.
Only time will tell. If that's what a court does ill fight for my baby to be safe

Make do you officially have Residency? In light of him playing silly buggers and issuing yet more probably empty threats, you might want to see a solicitor wrt getting Residency.

Kitty- nothing has been done since birth. Just her birth certificate?
I doubt he will ever go for custody.

God I feel like a child trying to bluff my way through a grown up game (life not Mn)

I know exactly what you mean about feeling like you're bluffing in a grown-up world, Make! I often feel the same about life!

There is a lot of confusion (on this thread and elsewhere) about what parental responsibility actually means. This leaflet from the Children's Legal Centre may help clarify some things...

There is NO connection between PR, contact and maintenance - all three are separate issues under English law. A PR order gives a parent the right to be involved in major life decisions - major medical treatment, where s/he goes to school etc... It says nothing about contact.

(So for instance, my DS1's dad was granted a PR order at the same time as a contact order was not made, because he told the court he was moving 150 miles away and didn't know if/when he'd ever see DS again. And he's never paid any maintenance. In practice, the PR order that my DS's dad obtained 15 years ago has never had any impact on me... But it could have done - if for instance we had disagreed about his religious upbringing or schooling... But since he was totally disinterested, he never sought to have any influence at all).

There is a presumption that parents with PR will co-operate in the best interests of a child. If they don't or can't, one parent can apply to a court to resolve specific problems, like contact.

Your Ex can apply to a court for a contact order, Make, if he doesn't like the contact you are offering him. This has nothing to do with his PR status - he could do this even if he didn't have PR.

A court will agree that it is in your DD's best interests that she sees her dad. It will probably agree that he should have unsupervised contact, unless you can truthfully argue that she would be at risk from him. It will probably agree that, at her age, little and often is best.

It is unlikely to agree overnight contact, given her age, and the previous lack of contact - but you should expect him to be granted that at some point.

It will not rule that you have to drive to 'deliver' your DD to him. It very definitely will not say that you have to drop everything and agree to contact at 24 hours' notice. You certainly don't!

An important thing to understand is that a contact order requires you to allow DD to have contact with her dad. It lets him have contact; it does not make you do anything at all except allow him and not be obstructive... This leaflet from Gingerbread has more info.

If you have clear, documented evidence that you have offered him regular contact at/near her home, a court is likely to think this is reasonable.

You could also offer him contact via Skype - e.g. he could read her a bedtime story - which would be a way for them to build up a relationship without him having to travel, and you could 'back off' a bit and let him have time alone with him while knowing she was physically safe in your own home.

You could try a kind of 'broken record' technique - send him an email once a week offering specific contact times/places (e.g. one or two alternative 'physical' meetings plus Skype contact) and ignore everything else except any polite request from him asking for an alternative time.

I don't think you need to worry about a Residence Order - but I'm not a lawyer, and if you want to be sure, you should ask one. He has never been resident with her, and you always have been, and courts generally maintain the status quo unless there is a very good reason to change it - and there isn't in your case. His PR does not strengthen any claim to residence he might make - that would be decided based on your DD's needs/best interests and his ability to care for her.

Honestly Make, you don't have anything to worry about. He is angry that he is not getting his own way, and he is trying to bully you - it's just noise.

Flow I've been up every minute of the night. I must have read your post 50 times, and I cannot thank you enough. It actually made me cry at having clarification. I had tried gingerbread but struggled to find much.
I tried Skype with him, it's boring apparently. Unfortunately there is no way my parents will let him in the house which poses a big issue.
I do mind unsupervised contact and I would fight that as much as I can. I've no problem in the long run, it's just at first.
Also I don't think he has any intention of doing anything, yet again trying to frighten me. If he really wanted to see her why has he only once in 7/8 weeks? It's all about money, he has only really started up again since the CSA contacted him. If he really cared about DD would it have taken 10 voicemails, 4 letters and numerous attempts at his employer?
He has only started since the letter detailing payments arrived at his.

It doesn't stop me being scared. I've got numerous messages asking if he is coming to see her, if he wanted to take her swimming etc. no replies. Sent pictures no replies. His only replies state he's not coming down, I should he taking her to his parents.

He used to want me to take her to our old flat. That's stopped now. I've friends in that town, my job I've had to leave in that town. I don't even feel I can go and see my friends. I'm that nervous.
I feel quite and ashamed at what has gone on. The lies that he has spread. The worst thing is I can feel some feelings are still there- that I hate.
I can't help feeling his parents are pushing this latest roadblock. He is trying to scare me. I think mummy and daddy will pay for him to go to court, so he is drastically trying to get me to roll over. Because in court I've got a diary, of proof, with text messages and phone records. Nothing to hide, why would I? I actually want her to see him!
I think he's worries mummy will see that and realised he's told a few porky pies. I know she will think I've made it up anyway.
I think the message about just coming and take her is what got to me most.
Today's another day another day of wishing I didn't exist.

Make He cant just come and take her when he pleases, because thats not PR is about, my DD's dad certainly wouldnt just turn up and take her, i'd call the police and i'd kick his arse too.

Make why would 'just come and get her' when he can't or won't arrange a time to come and see your dd. It's all words to make you afraid and bullied again.

You could phone 101 the police non emergency helpline and speak to them, and get some advice.

I just wish I could see into the future. I don't feel like I will be happy ever again. Or trust eve again.
This has been nearly a year now
I have no one in RL I can talk to really. I have one fantastic mumsnet friend, we speak on the phone everyday but she's too far away to see.
(She's not on here anymore) she's great out DDs are the same age, and we have similar issues.

Just had to write that down in case she reads this and I'd like her to know how much she means to me, and dd. and I can't wait to see her soon.

You are all fab though

Make You will be happy again, trust me, just dont keep expecting it to be over because you feel let down, just take steps to make your life better, dont force yourself to expect to be fine. It will come.

It might be for the best if he takes the matter to court Make.

Contact can then be set out by the court, and you could apply for a residency order at the same time.

From that point onwards, you will only need to make your DD available for contact on the days/times the court has ordered contact for.

It doesn't sound like you are going to be able to resolve things amicably with your XP which is but at least a court order would make things a lot clearer.

I understand your DD is only a baby and you're not happy for him to have unsupervised contact yet because you want him to build a relationship with her, and show you that he is capable of seeing to her needs, but you would have the same problems if he sees her supervised by you and your mum, sees her regularly for 6 months, then you allow unsupervised contact, then he drops off the face of the earth for 2 years and then comes back when your DD is 3 years old and she will still need a lot of looking after when she is 2, 3, 4, 5 years old.
If that happens, and it's not unheard of, your DD wont know him again and you're back to insisting on supervised contact, so it's not all about her being a baby, it's about him not knowing her.
I agree with flow wrt It will probably agree that he should have unsupervised contact, unless you can truthfully argue that she would be at risk from him.

I can't see that you are going to want to go along with unsupervised contact when your DD is 2 or 3 years old either. Your DD could still be in nappies at that age, and lots of DC of that age can't make themselves understood very well either, and are still very very young and in need of someone who will look after them. It doesn't sound like your XP would be much use before your DD is about 6 or 7 tbh.

I still don't understand how he apparently has so fewer rights than you, when you both only have PR. Surely you both have the same rights because you both have PR. In your position, I would definitely get a residency order. I know DD lives with you, but it is good to have that rubberstamped by a judge.

If the worst comes to the worst, which I don't think it will tbh, and he refuses to return your DD after contact, or takes her from you, don't hold out much hope of the police helping you.

Contact between parents and children is a civil matter, not a criminal matter and the police will advise you to return to court. The police's role is to resolve the matter without a breach of the peace happening. They honestly don't get involved in parental contact disputes, because they deal with criminal matters.

Actually yes, good advice to ring the police on 101 and ask their advice. At least you will know what to expect if he does show up.

If he has only really started up again since the CSA contacted him and you think this is the reason he is banging on about contact now, I think I'd cut him off altogether.

Sounds like you'd be a lot less stressed without him in your life. I know others probably wont agree, but I wouldn't want to live with the stress, so I would probably close the CSA case, ignore him completely and wait for him to take me to court, if he ever did.

That's just me though.

And I say that because it sounds to me from this thread that he is unlikely to change any time soon.
It could be one battle after another, one set of problems after another.

If my DD was 5 months old again, I wouldn't want to be encouraging her to build a bond, a relationship with her father, when he really couldn't be bothered with her.
If he can't be bothered now, you will probably find yourself chasing him for years to see her.
In years to come, when she knows him, and he lets her down, it wont be your XP crying at the window, picking up the pieces of yet another disappointment!!

I am only saying what I would do, so obviously you don't need to take any notice, but you wont change this man into a great dad for your DD, only he can do that and it doesn't much sound like he's that bothered.

Littlemiss- that is what I would love to do. Exactly what you would like to .
Maybe that's what I will have to do. If I went to court- I don't think he would stick to arrangements. It's not about Dd to him, it's about money.

It sounds harsh but I'm going to say it.
I'd rather give him maintainence to go and disappear! He's so useless! He thinks she's like pay per go tv as someone said. He's paying for her so he gets to watch her so to speak- sod her needs.