in thinking that mumsnetters don't like men very much?

[examiner99]

I'm new to mumsnet and thought it would be a great place for positive mutual support, but I'm aghast at how many 'I've lost my man so let's encourage some other poor woman to ditch hers' posters there are here. People are not perfect, men or women, so why is everything the man's fault? (I am a mum by the way, in case you were wondering...)

I am a man

I LOVE it here, LOVE IT

There are a lot of double standards on MN

And a lack of realisation that it is near impossible to understand a long-term relationships from a few line winge bashed out after a row with one's other half.

Sometimes men get a bit of a rough deal from that yes. However, you could try to redress the balance (and hope you don't get shot down for defending someone whose side of the story you havn't heard )

Op - would you prefer it if, say someone posted about how their husband was always putting them down and humiliating them in front of friends and family, beating them, not involving themselves at all in looking after the home or DCs that all of MN just went
"congrats! You've found yourself a MAN! Now don't you dare upset him. Make sure you be extra nice and spend the rest of your life with him".

Get your head out of your ass

That is a very good point Bogeyface.

By the time a poster is roused enough to bother typing it all out on a forum like mumsnet, seeking advice or reassurance, you can bet your last tenner that things will have been going rather badly in their relationship for a while.

No-one bothers to appeal to bunch of strangers about their most personal business unless they have got to the point where they NEED help. I say that speaking from my own personal experience too.

A poster may post that her dh is lazy round the house for example, and it is getting to her...but probe further and more and more of the things that are making her unhappy in her relationship will come leaking out, and usually none of it is good.
These things will build up a picture that we will opinionate on.

No-one here has an invested interest in seeing a good relationship broken up for their own satisfaction. That's a very childish thing to think.

Oooh, we've been told.

FYI I have been married to a very difficult man for 23 years and will almost certainly leave him in a few months time. There has been no physical abuse and where he has overstepped the mark verbally I am confident and articulate enough to point out exactly where he is being an idiot. This is how I have survived - by analysing and 'using my words'. It has been one way to survive and stay a happy person. If someone had come along and actively encouraged me to throw in the towel at my low moments I would have done, with catastrophic results, and this is why some of the 'shoot-from-the-hip' posters scare me. As it is I get to end it when it suits me best.

I think you're being a bit silly.
'Positive mutual support' doesn't mean stroking someone's hand and sending them back to their life, it means presenting strategies and potential solutions and listening, and yes - definitely - speaking out when someone has 'normalised' something that is not normal.

There was a thread a few days ago when someone's P had 'surprised' her by saying he didn't want her to go back to work. First page was very supportive - why, have you had a proper discussion or did you fight, some of his points sound relevant etc. After a few more posts it became clear the OP was in a pretty bad situation - she was a SAHM, he saw family money as his, not theirs, he controlled every aspect of their home life - and the responses changed somewhat. As they should have. It was incredibly supportive.

Also 'I've lost my man so let's encourage others' - you clearly did mean to be rude with that one, yeah?

Most OPs that post about unhappy marriages want to know one thing: "what is normal in relationships, what can one expect from a good decent viable relationship?" And a chorus of Mumsnetters come back to reply:

you can expect partners who treat each other as equals and respect each other equally

you can expect an absence of physical violence

you can expect an absence of fear of the other partner

you can expect never to be humiliated or denigrated in public by your partner

you can expect not to have to listen to violent or abusive language

you can expect your partner not to put you down in front of your children

you can expect never to need to fear for the safety of your children from your partner

you can expect that your partner will pull his/her weight and want to do his/her best for the family

you can expect to feel cherished and supported when you are low or unwell

you can expect to feel safe from betrayal or unfaithfulness

you can expect an equal say in questions that affect the family finances/lifestyle/parenting etc

you can expect an equal amount of leisure time and equal freedom to choose your friends and hobbies

you can expect equal access to money/everyday comforts etc

This is what millions of women have and there is absolutely no reason you should put up with less.

No one disputes that there are "twats" and "cunts" out there but the reason why I agree with the man hating comment is that there seems to be no discrimination in the application of these labels.

Recently a MNetter posted how her normally considerate and caring DP blew up and verbally abused her. The guy clearly acted out of character. My advice was to find out if he had problems at work. Maybe he/ they had financial problems that he wasn't sharing with her.

Then the Sisterhood of Dump the Bastard arrived en masse. Forget that the guy was acting out of character. Suddenly this guy was exactly like the abusive/selfish twat/cunt that was their ex.

I tend to read threads and feel sad that there appear to be lots of women who live with useless, lazy or manipulative men and accept it or think its normal.

yy - very much so. It is depressing and frustrating.

Spot on Cory.

i lost - bet myself the OP would leave it an hour before they came back to goad

You survived 23 years by putting up with him, arguing back or not, he is still difficult isnt he? So your 23 years have changed nothing.

Perhaps if someone had told you 20 years ago that you didnt have to put up with that shit and that you had the right to leave and find someone who made you happy then you wouldnt have wasted all those years. Perhaps the results would not have been catastrophic.

How can you be so sure they would have been anyway?

Oh and "surviving" is not a marriage, it is a long slow death.

Just think OP - you could have spent 23 years with a man who wasn't difficult at all. A man who was kind and respectful, who cherished you and treated you well.
You chose not to.

Hardly our fault.

examiner what you seem to be saying is that everyone should stick out a shit/borderline abusive marriage because I did. Anyone who leaves an unhappy marriage without putting themselves through two decades of misery is a flake.

What would the catastrophic results have been?
Have your RL friends encouraged you to put up with 23 years of a difficult marriage?
Would a few more robust MN threads have made you change your mind?

I agree - congratulations on 'surviving' your marriage.
I prefer to be proud of and enjoy mine.

totally I agree that there is projection sometimes but in the main it is an urge to protect other posters from potentially going down the same road.

That is really sad to me.

I have spent 23 years with an amazing man. I can't imagine how awful to look back on 23 years of enduring a relationship. Those years are the prime years of our adulthood. How awful.

Can I ask because I don't understand, why was enduring 23 years of unhappiness a good thing?

And you say that if MN had told you to leave then you would have done, so that says to me that all you needed to end your marriage was support from others not because you actually wanted it to work.

I agree, its very sad to have endured a marriage. 23 years of your life, wasted. The catastrophe is that you haven't left sooner. Mners would have helped you see that.

I knew I didn't have to stick it out, it was my choice to do so, that is my point. And since when is surviving anything a long slow death??? And the years have been by no means wasted, nor for the most part have they been unhappy.

You just keep telling yourself that OP. That's fine and up to you.

Fortunately, there are some here who expect a lot more from life...and get it.

Do you have children, OP? Would you be proud if your example encouraged a daughter of yours to choose a difficult man and put up with him for 23 years? Would you be proud if a son of yours thought it was ok to be that difficult husband, because his mum obviously thought that was acceptable in men?