To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

[seeker]

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

delboys, what is your intereset in denying that this happens? The video that Shamy linked to. That is what happens when you are seen to threaten male privilege. But as Sam Brick and Mary Beard have shown women don't have to directly threaten male privilege to receive abuse. They get to receive it because they are women. And have opinions.

Amen LapsedPacifist Amen

@hullygully. See every Guardian cartoon with David Cameron. Is he not always portrayed with a condom on his head?

The #silentnomore hashtag on twitter has women who have experienced this kind of misogyny detail there experiences. Men have come on to deny their experiences. What a surprise.

Delboy. I have said that I agree that men are sometimes judged on their appearance. If anybody has that never happens, they are wrong. Is that what you meant by maybe somebody being wrong about part of their argument? Or is there something else? If so, could you highlight it for me?

Yes, there is a Guardian cartoonist who caricatures David Cameron's shiny face in this way. Does said cartoonist draw cartoons in which, week after week, the idiotic David Cameron has johnny-faced exploits and is raped at the end of them? No, the cartoons satirise what he says and does.

abigailadams- I'm not denying it happens, not at all. But I dont think it is as common, or is as big a problem as feminism makes out. A lot of problems feminists talk of are not gender specific, as much as feminists would like them to be.

But then so women have a vested interest in misognyism (sp?) existing. If there wasnt some far off power keeping them down then they might have to start taking accountability for their own failings.

I think feminism is very important in terms of trying to get justice/ support for women who are victims of sex crimes- the rest of it seems a desperate search to find problems which dont exist. Tje same as most of identity group political movements I suppose

delboy - er, yes. a condom because he is "shiny Dave"

Not a real life photo of a penis with his face on it and comments about it's size shape and what might be stuck up it.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

del, the point is that they very clearly aren't wrong. Men are not slut-shamed and threatened with extreme sexual violence as the go-to response when they say something people dislike. Men are not told that their gender is in itself a huge insult.

I really, really don't understand how you can even begin to pretend otherwise. You've not offered any evidence so far - Cameron shown as an idiot with a condom on his head, and Beckham's sock choices mocked, and you think that's the same? And when people say, errrr..... no. It isn't. That's them in denial?

I agree on the denial. I just think you're pointing in the wrong direction.

The original steaming nit- i was responding to another poster who said that they were yet to see a mans faced super imposed onto genitalia. I gave an example straight away of something very simple and straight away it is changed again to well he wasnt raped at the end of it!

neither was Mary Bell in the picture of her as far as I was aware?

"It's the blatant lack of approval-seeking behaviour that so deeply offends men, the flagrant breaching of codes of accepted female behaviour that terrifies women.2 Oh I had missed that from LapsedPacifist. Yes that is exactly what is happening. I hope you don't mind but I quoted it on the thread in FWR too.

delboy - you know, I'm sure you don't mean to come across the way you do, but your posts make you sound like someone both horribly thick and an utter wanker.

Del, do you imagine sexual and domestic violence occur in a societal vacuum?

And are you male?

what because I dont agree with you hullygully?

I'll use small words

people get judged on their looks
all the time
but - men get judged on looks less than women
attacks against men are not as vicious as those against women.

E.g. saying someone has made a fashion mistake wearing white socks - not so serious
saying someone looks like a cartoon character - not so serious
saying someone looks like genitalia, making an image to illustrate the point, threatening rape - serious

If someone was going to insult you, would you prefer AND THESE ARE THE TWO OPTIONS
a) you look like Wallace or
b) you look like female genitalia and are too ugly to rape.

what are these problems that do not exists that us feminists make up. Sexual harassment at work, sexual harassment in public, over looked for promotion because we have a vagina, our opinions not taken seriously because we have a vagina, not being taken seriously because we do not look a certain way

yes we should up about those and just be thankful that rape is against the law and a husband can no longer rape his wife what are we thinking wanting to be treated equally and with respect

what are these problems that do not exists that us feminists make up. Sexual harassment at work, sexual harassment in public, over looked for promotion because we have a vagina, our opinions not taken seriously because we have a vagina, not being taken seriously because we do not look a certain way

yes we should shut up about those and just be thankful that rape is against the law and a husband can no longer rape his wife what are we thinking wanting to be treated equally and with respect

Hully - there is absolutely no need to insult wankers like that.

No, because you have ignored a huge wealth of supported evidence in favour of, "well, I don't think so, and you all just want to believe this because it suits you." That's not an argument. It's an insult instead.

Repeatedly stating a blanket belief, without any evidence, is not an argument at all. Your failure to get your head around that does come across as being dense, I'm sorry, but yes it does. And the cavalier dismissal of some pretty horrible facts and examples comes across as unpleasant, too.

David Cameron with a condom on his head

abigail I know, it's absolutely vile. According to some though, that is not misogyny.

Delboy. Go back. Read the Everyday Sexism Project site I linked to earlier. Actually read it this time, all 47 pages currently active. Then come back and tell us that women are "desperately searching for problems that don't exist"

Have you ever read the comments on CiF, delboys. Really, not common? Dee Nile.

And this isn't reserved for famous women either.

I used to post on a sport's forum until the misogyny got too bad. Any woman who didn't match up to the Patriarchal Fuckability Test (Trademark SGM!) was pilloried and any woman who did match up was subjected to disgusting comments about how she liked to have sex, who she did it with, she was a slag/slut/whore etc. The women's side of the sport was denigrated regularly and put your head above the parapet, about anything and the kitchen sink comments (and worse) would roll in. I had someone suggest that I take it up the arse for a completely non-controversial remark I made.

And it is Mary Beard. Please get her name right. The lack of disrespect in your posts is evident.

del so you dont think its a problem that women have their intellectual and political arguements disregarded because they look like a cunt?

You don't think its a problem that a school/town cover-up a gang rape of a comatose girl because the rapists are star football players with promising careers and that's all the town has going for it

Eveyday Sexism Project is a really good at highlighting how this happens everyday to women everywhere.

There was also a small sexual assaults thread which mushroomed a couple of years ago in FWR. They weren't small sexual assaults either.

This is all from the same place. Male privilege and ownership of public spaces - the internet, the street, the night club etc.