To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

[seeker]

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

[AnyFucker]

You've got a fucking funny way of showing empathy, HC

[perceptionreality]

YANBU

I haven't read the whole thread but a lot of people support it without thinking about what they're doing - they are brainwashed with it. It's so annoying, for example so many women will refer to another woman as a 'slut' without much thought.

[AbigailAdams]

Appalling lack of empathy, HC, for someone who has been abused.

[PiratePetesPotty]

Hilary your posts are very upsetting to me, if you have experienced abuse then why dish it out to others who have also? I'm really sorry you've been abused :( I agree with you that there isn't enough support for men who have been abused, perhaps you could start your own thread on it instead of attacking people on this one.

[LesBOFerables]

PPP, I'm sorry you've had to put up with that shit.

[MurderOfGoths]

"I think we all do, but you choose your battles don't you?"

Oh absolutely, I wasn't suggesting you should choose this one. Just explaining why it's important to me.

"What I was trying to say is that we all prioritise what is important to us, and that the fact misogyny is not a priority or even registering much for some, doesn't mean "you are in denial" just focused in other directions. "

I know, as I said in the rest of my post. The thread was originally about people who did deny it existed, rather than people who just hadn't noticed it in their lives.

"So as a male, I post my own tale of years of abuse, I will be questioned and not believed"

In all honesty I find it unlikely that the main response would be one of disbelief. Yes, there may be some people who will do that, but then female victims of DV will also tend to get the same proportion of disbelief.

"I am not an abuser but a victim of abuse yet to point out how rife female on male abuse is within society and the distinct lack of support there is"

You are right that there is a huge lack of support. And it's disgusting. Unfortunately part of the problem is the view that women are the weaker sex, which disadvantages most women, and in the case of female on male violence makes it harder for men to get support.

I think the reason it causes problems on MN especially is that we get a lot of poster who come on and say that there is as much female on male DV as male on female DV. Which, according to the stats, isn't true. Admittedly the stats don't take into account unreported DV. But if you take into account historical and cultural factors, there is a reason why male on female DV is more prevalent.

It being more prevalent doesn't mean it is more important though.

It all needs to be stopped. In a slightly roundabout way feminism can help achieve this.

[Geckoandthemonkey]

YANBU I appall page 3 BUT women can be absolute b*atches too! They (we) can dig our own graves like men glory in saddism. Like, why can't/don't we manage to breastfeed our little ones anymore?

[Sunnywithshowers]

What's breastfeeding got to do with anything? FFS.

[MurderOfGoths]

I.. er.. don't even know where to begin with that post...

I'd quite like to treat everyone with respect even if I think they are just wielding the big spoon, but I think I might have to draw the line there..

[AnyFucker]

they're out in force tonight, ain't they ?

none too articulate either

[JustAHolyFool]

So tonight I go out with a friend and an acquaintance. The acquaintance would personify himself as dead right on. There were some girls in short skirts dancing in front of us, and he was gazing at them. He started telling me some bull about how men are not sexy like women. I said well, you're a hetero guy, so...how would you know, really? I would LOVE some men to dance like that. He tried to deny that.

It's just normal, in our society, isn't it? Men aren't sexy, women are. I HATE that.

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

YY JustA. Part of the "men are visual creatures" trope with a side order of "women need to be emotionally attached"

[TheDreadedLurker]

Holy crap! There really are some bloody unpleasant people on Mumsnet...AND really screwed up too...jeez!
I fail to see how ANY of the self-confessed feminists who have posted on here are "man-hating"!! (and I´ve read the entire thread)
I don´t see that any of their comments have been irrational rants against men, boys and maledom in general.
It seems like people come on here because they have this preconceived idea of feminists as (here it comes, block your ears/eyes) sigh "hairy-legged, lesbian man-haters and feel they simply MUST contradict them and shout them down at all cost.
If they actually took the time to read what people are writing in a calm and objective way, they would see there is no man-hating here.....just a call for equality! If asking for equal rights and fairness is such a bad thing for some people, then I honestly just....I dunno....perhaps I should head back into the kitchen and bake a fucking apple pie and give up entirely?
´Scuse me, but I´m getting annoyed

[TheDreadedLurker]

By the way, I found Fusam´s comment very interesting. Since many people wouldn´t dare making a racist comment yet feel it´s perfectly fine to make derrogatory comments to females, it´s always good to hear from somebody who can comment on both issues from a personal experience point of view and very telling that she finds sexism to be more hurtful to her.

[ArielThePiraticalMermaid]

Where are the man hating sentiments on this thread? Have you actually read it, Hilary? It seems very strange to me that you should keep saying this when you are the one who upset people with your hateful comments?

There has not been one poster on this thread who has expressed "hatred for men" rather than support for equality for women and men.

[MurderOfGoths]

"If asking for equal rights and fairness is such a bad thing for some people, then I honestly just....I dunno....perhaps I should head back into the kitchen and bake a fucking apple pie and give up entirely?"

It's really disheartening isn't it :(

[FrameyMcFrame]

PerfectStorm, your posts are fantastic

[MurderOfGoths]

Just leaving this here...

[perfectstorm]

Thanks, Framey.

[flippinada]

Purely answering the op, because:

1. They benefit from it in some way
   
   
2. They are aware of it on some level but find the concept so disturbing that they would rather deny it and work hard to do so.
   
   
3. They've absorbed the message that women are inferior to men and accept it as natural.
   
   
4. They also hate women.

[Daddelion]

I'd be interested to know what is the percentage of men people think are misogynists?

Are they misogynists all the time or just sometimes?
To all women or just some?

I know it's a subjective question, but I wonder what the answers would be.

[SolidSnake]

Daddelion There is no sometimes you are a misogynists, sometimes you are not. You either are one, or your not, there is no middle line. And if you are misogynistic towards one woman, you are by default misogynist to all women.

[ArielThePiraticalMermaid]

I don't think I agree with that. DP occasionally does/says something which makes me want to yell, but I wouldn't describe him as "a misogynist". It's a bit like ignorance...I think he might do/say/not do something because of social norms or bad habits, but once I have pointed it out, after looking a bit t7aken aback and saying perhaps he hadn't thought of it like that before, he would think more carefully in future. That's good, surely? Getting people to think and evaluate.

[SolidSnake]

ArielThePiracticalMermaid i think there is a difference between being ignorant and a misogynist. Like you said, you pointed out the mistake and he accepted it. I think if he said something offensive (like "some women are asking to get raped by the clothing they wear") you pointed out the mistake and he still stuck by his guns about it and didn't care what you thought, that would be misogynistic behaviour (hypothetically of course!)

[ArielThePiraticalMermaid]

Just Ariel is fine :)

Oh we fight about it obviously. He doesn't just roll over about things like "How is it my fault if I can tolerate more mess than you?" which is often mentioned on feminism threads.