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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

806 replies

seeker · 22/01/2013 21:31

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

OP posts:
seeker · 23/01/2013 10:38

Delboy- are you really saying that Griffin, Starkey and Milliband have been treated in a way that is own a par with the way Mary Beard was?

I talked about Beckham because he was the only example anyone provided a link to. Happy to do the same with any other links!

OP posts:
AbigailAdams · 23/01/2013 10:39

How about we focus on women being on the receiving end of misogyny for voicing an opinion delboys, after all that is what this thread was supposed to be about.

FreudiansSlipper · 23/01/2013 10:39

beckham is a great example he is caught with his pants down and who is the media backlash on his wife if only she has smiled more he would not have cheated Hmm

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 23/01/2013 10:40

Although we have had a demonstration of the denial mentioned in the OP, if not an explanation that quite makes sense!

seeker · 23/01/2013 10:40

Oh, and obviously every time Ed Miliband stands up in the House somebody says that the best way to shut him up would be to stuff a dick in his mouth.........

OP posts:
delboysfileofax · 23/01/2013 10:40

Theoriginalsteamingnit- so you really think no one has stated on a forum they know where Griffins or Starkeys house was on the internet? Or that they knew where their kids were?

AbigailAdams · 23/01/2013 10:41

True SteamingNit! Illustrated nicely, in fact!

TheCrackFox · 23/01/2013 10:41

In the dim and distant past David Beckham wore some hideous socks. At no stage did anyone ever suggest that they would force a cock in his mouth as punishment, or rape him and then throw up afterwards.

Men are generally not judged on their looks, women are, all the fucking time. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

perfectstorm · 23/01/2013 10:41

There's a gulf between commenting that you don't think someone is very attractive, and saying they should never speak at all and deserve to be raped because you think they are ugly. I have never seen the latter aimed at a man. For a woman in public life, or in fact with any media presence, it's almost normal. And if the woman in question is attractive, she's dismissed as having no value other than decorative - a no-win.

Did you hear about Felicia Day?

seeker · 23/01/2013 10:44

I think it was actually Nick Griffin who was the one who was interested in listing people's addresses on the Internet, wasn't he?

Still waiting for the picture of David Stqrkey's face superimposed on a vulva. Or a suggestion that Ed Milliband be shut up by shoving a dick in his mouth......

OP posts:
AbigailAdams · 23/01/2013 10:44

Men get threatened. Really we understand that. They tend to get threatened when voicing really controversial opinions. Women, not so much. It doesn't matter what opinion they voice misogyny will rear it's ugly head in the comments that follow. Just read the Guardian's CiF every time a woman writes an article.

PessaryPam · 23/01/2013 10:46

I actually feel that MB has been treated horribly by some people, mostly men. I don't agree with her politically but these men attacked her looks and person rather than countered her political views. This is the lazy fall back position for many inarticulate men, and sadly many like AA Gill who should know far better.

So for the record I do not support the traducing of MB, it's pretty sickening.

perfectstorm · 23/01/2013 10:47

Also: we're talking about casual, extreme sexism which involves threats of sexual violence, because that's common online. Any threads on a US site about a woman who has said or done anything someone doesn't like will attract sexually violent comments (protected free speech in the US means that isn't a crime - I'm not at all sure it is legal to say such things in this country, actually). So how is it not relevant to mention actual sexual violence, when the cultural norms such comments betray intrinsically validate such violence? They normalise it. They legitimate it. They let those men open to the notion believe that it is acceptable to talk and think that way about women. Do you really not see the parallels in Nazi Germany, when before the Holocaust the media all constantly portrayed Jews as evil, malign leeches on society? If you have an environment in which it's seen as in any way acceptable to talk and feel and think that way about women, you also have an environment in which some will act that way. How is that in any way controversial? It's all linked.

slug · 23/01/2013 10:54

Delboys, your comments are known as the What about the Menz argument and are a tried and tested way of derailing arguments.

LapsedPacifist · 23/01/2013 10:55

Just listened to the lovely Mary on Women's Hour talking about this. She was as explicit as it is possible to be on Radio 4 at 10.00am about the exact nature of the abuse she received, and even I was shocked. And that's fucking difficult to do.

How very DARE any woman have the temerity to appear in her natural unadorned state on TV when she's obviously Past her Best and doesn't even try to hide it? Shock Anyone would think she doesn't Give an Actual Shit about whether the Menz (or the stupid women) think she looks hot or not?? Shock

It's the blatant lack of approval-seeking behaviour that so deeply offends men, the flagrant breaching of codes of accepted female behaviour that terrifies women. Mary has stepped outside the boundaries and ironically enough, she is seen by other women as 'letting the side down' by being in her 50s and not scrubbing up like Nigella.

And FWIW, i don't see anything wrong at all with an historian putting forward her views on something like immigration, they are trained to take a Long View of the Bigger Picture after all! The fact that she's a middle class professional would equally rule out 99% of all other Meejah Pundits from having a valid opinion either.

It never ceases to amaze me that academics, (and female academics in particular Hmm) who have made a career out of finding things out, analysing the facts and then presenting informed opinions are invariably dismissed as living in 'Ivory Towers', while the Bloke Down the Pub and the Man in the Street are deemed to be the founts of all wisdom and common sense.

AbigailAdams · 23/01/2013 10:56

Even our favourite handmaiden Samantha Brick gets her own share of the misogyny. And she upholds the patriarchy.

delboysfileofax · 23/01/2013 11:00

Yep thats it- just trying to derail an argument rather than pointing out that maybe just maybe someone might be wrong about part of their argument.

ShamyFarrahCooper · 23/01/2013 11:05

Sorry I haven't read all the way through, so not sure if Anita Sarkeesian has been mentioned.

Anyone who is unaware of what happened to here should watch this:

Then come back and tell us women should just get on with it. Hmm

TheCrackFox · 23/01/2013 11:05

You haven't actually given any evidence supporting your argument, though, delboy -apart from David Beckham's choice of socks. Why would anyone agree with you?

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 23/01/2013 11:08

What do you think others are wrong about? The fact that men get judged on appearance too? People HAVE agreed with that (poor old Nick Griffin :( )

I said before, you are very welcome to start your own thread about that issue, if you like?

KhallDrogo · 23/01/2013 11:09

Delboy I repeat, do you assert that misogyny doesn't exist?

delboysfileofax · 23/01/2013 11:10

Crackfox- this really isnt difficult. I wasnt the poster who first mentioned Beckham. I have only responded to other posters mentioning him.

Hullygully · 23/01/2013 11:10

Mary said there were picutes posted with her face superimposed on a vagina, with comments about it's appearance, size and what might be therein inserted.

I have yet to see a penis with a man's face superimosed on it.

But I suppose sock-choice is worse.

AbigailAdams · 23/01/2013 11:11

Oh wow Shamy. I had heard of her and what happened, I just hadn't realised the extent of the abuse. Horrific.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 23/01/2013 11:12

The stupid ironic thing about posts like these is that they make me think sympathetically about censorship.