To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

[seeker]

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

That might be the feeling of 'many people disagreeing with someone who is wrong', sig.

It's a pity you're not defending men or women, isn't it?

Still, at least some people are raising their sons to be decent men, so there's hope.

I'm not convinced that a mother bringing up sons to view women as untrustworthy and aggressive bitches out for what they can get is inevitably going to result in happy well-balanced young men capable of loving nurturing relationships, actually. It didn't do much for Norman Bates anyway.

'Still, at least some people are raising their sons to be decent men, so there's hope.'

I'm guessing that you're suggesting that I'm not. The likelihood of you casually throwing such an outrageously stinging remark in my direction should I be stood there in front of you would be extraordinarily remote.

How fucking dare you .

I dare because this is an important issue.

You have been calmly accusing other people of these things, so perhaps it is time for a little introspection.

I would be quite happy to say this to your face, btw. You rather underestimate women if you think we're only likely to tell the truth online.

How dare you suggest that my sons won't be decent men. God I'm so fucking angry. Is that palpable enough!!!

And yet Sigmund it's okay for you to throw stinging remarks in ediblewoman's direction? okay

Not 'palpable' (which means, something I could touch). It's obvious you're angry, yes.

However, I think if you were to pause for a moment, you'd realize your own deeply offensive comments have upset other people, too.

I didn't suggest your sons won't be decent men. There is every chance that they will react against their upbringing. Men are not naturally misogynistic, so it is quite hopeful.

For Christ's sake!! What is WRONG with you!!! What the fuck!! It was not fucking directed at ediblewoman.

kim - yes, indeed. I was saying that, despite sig's comments, I do strongly believe the women on this thread who are feminists raising sons, are raising them to be decent men, and proud of themselves. As they should be.

Dear Lord.

Maybe Sigmund's perspective is skewed because she spends all her time in feminist topics. If you just generally peruse the internet you'll find men are defended at the expense of women everywhere, so you really needn't worry about your boys.

I think you need to calm down and think. You're making a fool of yourself.

She said that feminists were raising their sons to be decent men, not that you weren't.

You complain about being ganged up on? Maybe everyone just disagrees with you!

And you have the cheek to complain about silencing then telling someone else to shut up?

Ridiculous.

Excuse me Ariel. I'm not sure if you have DC, but if you do, then you would most certainly be aware that suggesting that your children won't grow up to be decent people kind of trumps 'bloody cow' and a whole lot worse, pretty much every time.

sig, I said I'm glad many woman are bringing their sons up to be decent men.

I do think that feminism is hugely important in this. It makes me really worried and sad that some people think they can be anti-feminist and still expect their sons to grow up respecting women. I don't see how that can work. In fact, I believe that anti-feminist sons are anti-feminist men. I'm sorry if this upset you, but the solution is fairly simple IMO.

Bring your sons up to respect women, and they will be good men. I believe this because so many MNers have told me this is how it works. And they are women who have successfully raised sons who are feminists and who like women. They are the role models I keep in mind.

I fail to see how my acknowleging this is offensive to you personally, as opposed to being a general statement against misonyny?

JustAHoly - please keep your sanctimonious comments to yourself.

I was taking part in this discussion earlier. I stopped because it was getting silly. Whether I have children or not is immaterial.

I have suggested you need to calm down. You are obviously furious. You may well have made other posters furious in the course of your debates and they have not exploded like you have.

LRD - you have offended me massively. I'm not kidding. I know what you were saying. You don't even have the common decency to acknowledge it. I don't care what yours vs my beliefs are, I don't care.

You said I was a shit mother, you should take it back. You don't know me. My boys are amazing. They are not misogynists.

SigmundFraude You told me earlier this is a public forum and people can write what they like, which also goes for JustAHoly

Sometimes I wish you would keep some of your comments to yourself Sigmund, but ah well, this IS a public forum...

It's terribly sad I've offended you. It's terribly sad you've offended me, and many feminist mothers of sons.

I'm not sure what 'common decency' you're referring to - of course I acknowledge that I found your posts offensive. Of course I noticed you found mine upsetting.

The difference is, I'm not lying. I have never said you were a 'shit mother'. You need to stop lying about that.

Your childre may be delightful for all I know. I expect they are.

This does not stop my original point from being valid: I am glad that feminist mothers are raising decent, feminist sons who will turn into the sort of men we can all respect.