To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

[seeker]

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

Ok this is going to sound really weird, and I know I'll get some hate for this, but I got to where I am today (Fairly large home, good income, large family) using this "misogynistic" system. The whole trick to it is that some men DO think women are inferior and a bit ditzy and stupid, and then, they let their guard down about you, and you can do a massive power climb before they've even realized it. My current position is based on my old boss thinking I was in need of help from my male colleagues, who were all lazy and did none of the work. I then got promoted and I'm actually above the bastard now in the company And it's all because he underestimated what I could and would do, no doubt if he'd realized he would have taken the credit. Sometimes you can turn their prejudices around against them. It's not allways a bad thing.

I see your point, Dahlen but I think that would be said about men as well. Women do often say (grimly homophobically) that a hot gay guy is "a waste".

'And you not even a man. Well done.'

I have 2 young sons. I know the idea of women giving a toss about their children's future rights wouldn't cross your mind, due to the fact that they're male n' all, but I'm far from alone, despite of your assumptions that I am. I talk to other mothers of sons a fair bit.

Yes, seeker, I asked a quite a while ago. The answer was no.

Slippery yes, but it's hardly the point of feminism, is it? I have no desire to join their little boys' club because they actually think I'm dim but I sneak in through the back door. I want the world to be better for all women, whether they are able to play the system or not.

JustAHolyFool - exactly. No one has a problem accepting that a statement like that about gay men is homophobic. THe same said about a heterosexual woman is just accepted.

Sigmund, I really doubt that the women on here with sons "don't give a toss" about their futures.

Dahlen still, I think it would be a applied to hetero guys too. Leastways, I've heard it said often.

That's really disturbing, dahlen.

I do think there is more of an attitude that a single woman is a 'waste'. I've heard far more stuff about single men getting to live the good life, sleep around, etc. etc. It's bizarre that the terminology some people use about 'my wife, the old ball and chain' (yes, I've got a specific acquaintance in mind ) doesn't tally up at all with what people report about how they actually feel.

Married men report being the happiest, and married women the least happy.

One of the most misunderstood tenets of feminism is that men are massively disadvantaged by a patriarchical society too.

So yes, I do worry about my sons being brought up in a patriarchical society but I know what the enemy is and it's definitey not feminism.

I thought the whole point of being a feminist is to have equal rights to men.

So how can we have equal rights to men without male rights.

No that's not the point of feminism. Not sure how often that needs to be explained.

For anyone wondering the definition of feminism is to end the systematic oppression of women (well, most people's definition, there is not only one definition)

So it's about women rights not equality

So what do feminist want to happen, what is the agenda.

I am trying to learn about feminism. So this thread is helping my understanding.

McNewPants Fighting for women's right will contribute to equality (though i do believe men and women will never be "equal" in sense and equality will never be achieved, sadly)

I think men already have most of the rights.

"Mens Rights" section on MN? That's an entertaining prospect.

It would be quickest car crash in internet history. Once known of it would attract every on-line knuckle-dragger on the WWW ( and some 'FRA' to explain how women have it much worse), and HQ would have to invest in a much more robust Big Red Button. It wouldn't happen, and one can see why.

Besides we already have the over-exercised Dadsnet.

Rebecca West said "I have never been sure what a feminist is. I only know that I am called one when I express views that distinguish me from a doormat"

Or words to that effect.

OK, sigmunde, I'll bite.

What rights do you want to win for men?

That's an interesting question, because I can't think of any.

Perhaps for me to understand more I need to be told what women are fighting for.

I am not blaming my age (27) or my upbringing but my father has always encouraged me to follow my dreams and supported and encourage me.

McNewPants This might help whoneedsfeminism.tumblr.com/#

Thank you. Can someone do a clicky as I on my phone

whoneedsfeminism.tumblr.com/#

There you go

I was smacked around the face are today by an atrocious act of misogyny by a work colleague.

If I try to challenge then I'll be told I'm too sensitive and I need to toughen up as I have been previously. It's wearing me down.

FFS when is it going to change?

Pessimistic - you mean actually physically assaulted today?

I think some women don't acknowledge misogyny because they have internalised the patriarchal bs so totally that they believe it to be good.

Also, and I know I shouldn't do this but hey, Sig, I have a son and I see no value in engaging with MRA stuff for him as all I would be doing is continuing to perpetrate the idea that his value resides in his maleness when actually it resides in his essential self, his behaviour, his kindness, and his respect of others. I want my son to be a man who is secure enough in his own value and respectful enough of women to be a Feminist