To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

[seeker]

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

Crikey! 183 posts in FWR. And you're talking about feminism all over Dadsnet and AIBU and Chat too.

You do seem to have it on the brain, sig, for someone who claims it's all other people see.

Maybe you secretly want to join us?

No, I'm using it because I thought you were a man. Apologies if I was wrong.

that + my making the same assumption about you as you make about LRD = incredibly rude? How do you work that one out?

Harriet35 I don't think that's a great argument. She might spout shite (I don't know, I don't know anything about her) but that doesn't mean she deserves abuse.

If I talk crap, and I'm sure I do, I'd rather people just argued with me rather than saying they want to rape me/saying I look like a vagina.

No, you did not think I was a man. I have said enough times that I'm not. If you knew so much about me, as you claim to, you'd know that.

How many posts have you made in FWR LRD? Hardly comparable. Anyhow, as I said, I haven't posted there for ages.

sig, I'm a feminist. I know it's really cleverly hidden, but the clue is in my name.

Where did you expect me to post?

I did think you were a man, Sigmund, no matter how much you may rage about it. As I said, terribly sorry if I was wrong. It happens.

This is being seriously derailed. Who cares whether LRD posts exclusively in FWR or not? What difference does it make? I post exclusively on MN, is that not allowed?

I expect you to post in FWR.

I've only just seen this thread and it's been ruined as usual by the mass deletions and the usual derailments. Ages ago I was on a thread in Site Stuff supporting what I thought was a brilliant suggestion that if someone gets deleted three times on one thread they are barred from posting on it again. But nothing seems to have been done and for latecomers, this thread is impossible to read.

In answer to the OP, the reason some women collude with misogyny is a mixture of sheer selfishness, being hard of thinking, dislike of/competitiveness with women and also because they have fallen for all the propaganda about feminism equating to man-hating. But I often think that the views here are especially entrenched because of old grievances towards feminist posters and that these posters would be very different if they met a real-life feminist, instead of getting a very one-dimensional view of the world from one website they appear to be addicted to.

Excellent, glad we got that cleared up, now shall we get back to the subject?

Fair enough Tunip.

By all means, but you're not in FWR.

Indeed. It's almost like you were wrong, isn't it?

This topic should be in FWR.

I just 'looked for misogyny' on a search engine. searchnu.com/

I typed 'women' and then I typed 'men'.

Seek and ye shall find.

It's an AIBU, sig.

You yourself talk about feminism all over MN, so I'm not sure why everyone else shouldn't.

army - that is really depressing.

No I don't talk about feminism, I talk about men's rights. Can I just say, Caitlin Moran is the closest to a funny feminist I've heard. I'd leave her to it.

And you not even a man. Well done.

No this should NOT be in FWR.

Why on earth should an important issue like this be compartmentalised like that?

Can't say I like Caitlin Moron to much, disagree with a lot of what she says, especially when she said "she couldn't give a shit" about the lack of WOC portrayed on television.

Sigmunde- had you considered asking MNHQ for a "men's rights" topic?

Yes, Caitlin Moran is funny (actually she's not, but let's say she is) so no-one else can be a funny feminist. Goddit?

Same way that like John Cleese is funny, so you can't have any other funny men. It's the rule. One of one thing and no more. It's like Noah's Ark, except one less.

It's taken me bloody ages to read the entire thread, which has been really interesting despite some rather unintelligent and old, clichéd derailments thrown in.

I think what depresses me is the devaluing of women that is perpetuated completely subconsciously by some actually very nice men. Not because they want to put women down (most would be horrified if this was pointed out to them), but simply because since the moment of their birth they have been socialised into viewing women as an extension, or derivative, of men.

An example from just this week from a lovely, lovely man commenting on long-term spinsterhood, "That would have been such a waste". When questioned as to why, the answer was "Because you have such a lot to give to someone" [i.e. a man]. This was meant as a compliment, and taken in the spirit in which it was given, but how bloody depressing. It isn't enough for a woman to be interesting and loving to friends and family - all that is wasted if she doesn't give it to a man.

Good point, Dahlen