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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

806 replies

seeker · 22/01/2013 21:31

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

OP posts:
perfectstorm · 23/01/2013 14:21

She has a consistent posting history. Not buying the trolling excuse at all, sorry.

namchan · 23/01/2013 14:22

Blush for you trying to laugh it off as if you were trolling.

TheCrackFox · 23/01/2013 14:24

I think MNHQ should set up a misogynist section so all the arseholes can keep their bilge in one place.

Anonymumous · 23/01/2013 14:25

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ShamyFarrahCooper · 23/01/2013 14:27

militant feminists

Is there a uniform? Why wasn't I told?

seeker · 23/01/2013 14:32

Yes it is really really fucking militant to suggest that maybe, just maybe, it's not a good idea for men to threaten to shut up a woman they don't like by stuffing their dick in her mouth, isn't it?

And incredibly sanctimonious to think that rape is a bad thing to do?

And you typed all that crap with a baby in your arms? Jesus wept.

OP posts:
Absy · 23/01/2013 14:33

"I really can't be bothered debating the issues properly because I really, really am not interested"

So then why post at all? If you're bored there are about a million other things you can do on the internet beyond winding people up. I recommend www.sporcle.com

I don't always agree with some of the people on this thread, but at least I'm not such a huge arse to go and deliberately goad them to get a rise.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 23/01/2013 14:34

What about people like me? I am not sanctimonious or raging generally. I have very rarely posted in the feminists' section, but for some reason this thread struck a chord with me. Yet you appear to have put everyone in the same corner - you have labelled and categorised people according to previous prejudices. What about people like Mary Beard, who presumably, primarily wants to be a well known academic but has been forced by circumstance into taking a stand against this terrible and terrifying trend.

I am not making this thread about me, of course. I just want to know why you label people like this?

Anonymumous · 23/01/2013 14:34

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ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/01/2013 14:35

Anonymumous
Why did you think that such an important topic was worth derailing just because you had nothing better to do.

Its not about life's little inequalities, its about how half the population are not seen as equal in contribution, ability and intellectual capacity as the other half. Lots and lots of little inequalities adding up to one bloody huge one.

I am not a militant feminist (just an ordinary one), I am married with children but I also happen to be the breadwinner whilst DH was a SAHD.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 23/01/2013 14:36

You are either an expert and clever stirrer, or just very dim.

TheCrackFox · 23/01/2013 14:39

Just very dim by all accounts.

JustAHolyFool · 23/01/2013 14:39

Oh just leave her be now, she's not adding anything to the discussion, she's admitted she was trolling, and we're BORING her with our BORING MILITANT opinions.

Anonymumous · 23/01/2013 14:39

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perfectstorm · 23/01/2013 14:44

She's previously chosen to comment from a rather, um, conservative perspective on sensitive threads about sex and abortion, if memory serves. And it's an unusual username, so I think it does. So I sincerely hope she's genuine in her postings, because if she isn't, some of them are at times actively cruel to others on the thread. Ishoos either way, IMO.

Now I shall go and collect the toddler from preschool. Like the good militant feminist I am.

perfectstorm · 23/01/2013 14:45

Ariel - from my past observations, expert and clever are not adjectives that would immediately leap to mind, no.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 23/01/2013 14:48

:) :(

ShamyFarrahCooper · 23/01/2013 14:50

Back to the op. How much of it is conditioning I wonder? Socially for example?

When I first read Zog to ds he laughed when we got to the part where the princess says she wants to be a doctor. I asked why and he said 'girls can't be doctors'.
I had no idea where this came from. Not me or my DH or any family member.

Now however, we've started reading Matilda and last night Mr Wormwood was nasty and said along the lines of 'you're a cheat and a liar, a girl could never get that right' about a sum, and ds shouted 'that's not true, girls are good at maths too!'

The point is, we (DH & I) have had to work at showing him why girls can do things boys do. He's 5 btw and I feel like we'll constantly have to do this against the stream of outside messages.

Emsyboo · 23/01/2013 15:25

Hi just been taking time catching up on this thread.

To me it isn't about feminism but respect and many men and women feel the need to exert their power over people.

As the 'fairer' and 'weaker' sex it is easy to exert power over women by sexualising them this can be as simple as caller her a whore or as extreme as rape. Yes men can be raped and people can use power to demean men but it isn't as often and it isn't deemed as acceptable.

Another way men are put down is to feminise them if, it is this attitude and lack of respect that makes misogyny so socially acceptable. Of course their are extremes and exceptions as people have posted about.

I was brought up by a single mother who is not extreme but has feminist views, I never thought anything different about my worth as a woman or capabilities to be anything other than equal in any profession to any man. Yet even though my DH is very respectful of women his sisters seem to feel the need to be looked after and with that don't see themselves as being worthy of university even though one of them has a very scientific mind and is one of the most intelligent people I know. Yet her mother feels the womans place is in the home (not saying there is anything wrong with this as a choice) but to think only the males in the family are worthy of further education seems ridiculous to me, choosing to stay at home and raise a family is admirable but having no other option is restricting and a form of reinforcing that women are not good enough.

Misogyny has so many levels and don't think many people realise the implications of what they say. The man who called the poster 'girl' above this is another way of exerting power or dominance whether well intended or not because it is the norm people accept it and the more people accept these little bits the more boundaries are crossed and moved to include other things.

Internet trolls are keyboard warriors but you are right they use female genitalia as an insult whether the reason they attacked her was because she is a woman or not the imagery was misogynistic in itself. A penis (phallus) is considered a symbol of power, sometimes used for humour but female genitalia is an insult.

I do think women are more likely to get attacked for expressing opinion than men because deep down many people still think of women as second class citizens and less intelligent - or if they don't think this, the behaviour of others means this treatment of women is more acceptable and normal.

Men are bad for this but so are women, sometimes it is upbringing, social circumstances, naivety or lack of intelligence and in the worst cases it is purely to dominate and have power.

McNewPants2013 · 23/01/2013 15:30

Op thank you for starting this thread, after reading alot today I would say appearance of women is just the tip of the iceberg.

I have been thinking of this thread today and how wrong was I to put that link up.

I still have alot to learn about this subject as I have been blind to it.

It's like contraception, there is alot of contraception out there but why is only 2 applys to men..... Why can't they be subjected to drugs that control the contraception.

I don't think I have ever heard of conversation where a male in his 50 have been questioned why he never decided to have children, yet I have heard women of a similar age ask why she didn't have children.

As I have said I still have alot to learn on this subject.

Susan2kids · 23/01/2013 15:40

In answer to the original poster..... what do you get out of pretending they arent? The responce to Mary beard....... Have i ever seen a picture of a man with male genitals drawn on their face? Yes indeed I have frequently...as has anyone who went to school in fact drawings of male genitals are far more frequent than drawings of female... SO yes males are treated in a similar fashion. Have I seen elder male spokesmen described by women as 'out of touch decrepit yellow toothed foul smelling stanchions of male hierarchys' by similar people that post here. yes I have. The one thing that I havent seen happen to men is them being threatened with rape (often).... because of obvious reasons, I have seen them threatened with other violence...both threats are in fact crimes, they are treated equally.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 23/01/2013 15:41

But one is misogyny and the other is not, susan - and it is misogyny that the thread is about.

Susan2kids · 23/01/2013 15:42

"Why can't they be subjected to drugs that control the contraception. " Ah actually? Because its a whole lot easier to produce a reliable drug based result with female physiology whereas male drug treatments have quite worrying fail rates. Also because as a woman id never actually trust a man to have taken the drugs! Incidentally women are not 'subjected' to the pill....its voluntary.

Susan2kids · 23/01/2013 15:44

"But one is misogyny and the other is not, susan - and it is misogyny that the thread is about."

Actually the original poster said this "What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women?" thats what I answered. BOth are sexist. You cant claim one is acceptable and the other is not. unless of course you have zero interest in equality.

Emsyboo · 23/01/2013 15:47

This topic has deep routes and I think you could study it for years and never have a definite answer.
It goes back through history much like racism has deep routes in history and for both you will find it better and worse in certain social and ethnic pockets. I find this both interesting and horrifying as a mum to be to a DD (I already have a DS)
As with all things though burying your head to it being a problem just helps it spread.