To wonder why so many women are in denial about misogyny?

[seeker]

What do they get out of insisting that men are subject to exactly the same level of discrimination and abuse as women? That Mary Beard, for example, would have been treated in the same way if she had been a man?

I just don't get it.

perfectstorm yes, it's really troubling, isn't it?

no delboy you just spectacularly refuse to engage in a proper debate.

Please clarify your political self-interest group.

Perfectstorm

I do worry what delboy is teaching his child. If it's a boy is he teaching him that women are just bits of meat there for the sole purpose of male entertainment? And if she's a girl is he teaching her by his words and deeds that she is not as important as boys, that's she's a second class citizen, human but not a actually a person, and that her worth as a human being is intrinsically locked into how fuckable she is to men?

*political self interest group statement

Ooh interesting slug

I wonder if Del could tell us if:

a) if he has a son, will he encourage his son to go to said strip clubs

b) if he has a daughter will he be happy if she works in one

Delboy. I am a feminist. Challenge me. What would you like to ask/say and what would you like me to answer/say? Happy to answer any questions you have, or respond to any arguments. Go for it!

And when delboy has done that, please can we move on?

Can we agree not to engage with delboy and particularly not start on the sex industry arguments? Arguing with a misogynist who works in a SEV is the online equivalent of bashing your head against a wall

To go back to the original premise, I still think many women deny misogyny because to acknowledge it consciously is genuinely painful. I look back at some of the abuse I have suffered from men I've worked with or had relationships and it actually makes me feel nauseous. I now run my own business and have more time to really engage with how I feel and what goes on, and it makes me angry - I feel as though I carry a knot of rage around inside me that never quite goes away.

You can't escape it - go into the news agent and there's racks and racks of sexualised images of women on magazines which have nothing to do with fashion, health etc. Watch TV and there's the old male presenter/young sexy female presenter dynamic or films featuring sexual violence. Open the sports section of any mainstream newspaper and you'll be lucky to find one story about female sportswoman.

It's depressing, so no wonder some people don't want to accept it

Can we just ignore him please as he bringing nothing to the debate and can't even support any of his tired arguments with any actual evidence.

Because being groped in public is normal, because I should accept comments about my body parts in public, because I should 'smile', because I should welcome the attention, because I am ugly/a lesbian/hysterical/moaning/have no sense of humour if I don't.

All in the last month Del - in a reasonable sized English town just going about my daily business and minding my own. All from men - I have not done the same to any man, nor witnessed another woman do it to any man. That's still the reality for women - please acknowledge it. And if you were to suffer such treatment you do know it would be most likely another man doing it to you?

Human trafficking as a whole is an industry worth $220bn per year, and this includes slavery, prositution, economic migration and child exploitation.

In 2008, 12.3 million individuals were classified as ?forced laborers, bonded laborers or sex-trafficking victims.? Approximately 1.39 million worked as commercial sex slaves, with women and girls comprising 98%, or 1.36 million, of this population.

Yip, it's all in women's imaginations. NOTHING TO SEE HERE

Anon please show where there are pictures of all the men you posted about superimposed on a penis? Show the blogs that contain comments about the sexual violence people would like to do to those men.

Very difficult for me to engage in any debate when several people are trying to engage (read have a go) at me at once.

With regard to my child- how would i be teaching him that about women? he is very very young and I stopped working at that club in 2006. If when he is older and wants to go to a strip club it would not bother me. If i had a daughter I would prefer her not to work in one of those clubs but would not disown her if she did. If it was a question of not eating/ paying rent if she didnt do it then I would understand

One unpleasant women does not alter thousands of years of female oppression by men

Calling me a misogynist and asking people not to engage with me- what a great way to prove your point. Just because someone doesnt agree with some parts of feminism doesnt make them a misogynist you know!

hysteria was still used in medical journals until 30 odd years ago. I have never heatd a group of male football fans that are very excited being called hysterical or a man who is very upset

it's it men that faught for you to have the vote, is it men that faught for you to be paid an equal wage, is it mforth at faught for you to be allowed to divorce your husband if you so wished no it was women

Delboy- did you see my post? The offer is still there. You say feminists don't like being challenged- I am saying "I am a feminist- challenge me"

Fwiw - I'm glad that Mary is making it known about the comments made.

See delboy is be more inclined to support the dd, and have more of an issue with the ds that considered it ok to treat that as entertainment, knowing the girls have no other option if they are to pay the rent etc

and seeker providing that isnt a wind up then yes please, there is lots i would like to ask/learn about to do with feminism. Not sure if this thread is the most appropriate place though and am off to work in a bit. to everyone else out there it has been an interesting thread- i will bow out now. Good afternoon to you all

fought...
Not faught

Hmm, delboy, your attitude on here is women should stop moaning about something that is not a real problem. You've spectacularly ignored all the evidence and the counter arguments from women who point out that it is a real and common issue.

All of the evidence is coming from women. What does this say about your attitude to women? Especially intelligent women? What, of these attitudes, are you passing onto your son? The fact that you dismiss every piece of evidence presented to you suggests that you don't take women seriously. Your son will be learning this from you.

You are also quite unapologetic about working in an industry whose sole purpose is to present women's bodies as entertainment for men. Not their brains mind you, you've already demonstrated how little you think of them. Your son will be picking up on this. Picking up on the opinion that women are bodies who should stop moaning.

It's not a wind up- you mean you can't think of a single thing you can ask off the top of your head? What about all the opinions you think are wrong on this thrqd- why not choose one of those? Or explain what you meant by
"Yep thats it- just trying to derail an argument rather than pointing out that maybe just maybe someone might be wrong about part of their argument." and see what I said about the "parts of their argument" you think are wrong?