To ask your opinion? Re Children and seating.

[MeganScarlett]

My mum lives by herself in a smallish flat, and for her birthday always has the family over for tea and cake. My mum has four children and each of them has between 2-3 children and now some of them have their own children. So although we're not a large family it can get quite crowded when everyone is there.

The tea and cakes is always served in the dining room which is where all the adults sit and the younger children usually play in the living room. The youngest are between 4-9.

My niece and nephew were sat at the dining room table, they are both aged 17 and 15 and were the first to arrive with my sister. When others started arriving it was made clear by some that they should give up their seats for the adults and be made to sit in the living room with the younger children. I'm in my early 20s and made to feel sometimes that I am not adult enough to be sat with the older adults.

Should they have given up their seats for the older adults?

I'm really of the opinion that they shouldn't have, but others in the family would clearly disagree.

I don't know if you are referring to me (if you are, then please just say so as it prevents misunderstandings), Bamboo.

I don't think that children should be seen and not heard, but I do want to have a chat with my friends without children interrupting all the time - they can tell me their stories later.

My daughter is very well able to put an argument across, and is not afraid of standing up and asking a question, but she does it in a respectful way.

I'm agreeing with the posters who say that the DC should have offered their chair to those older.

DamnBamboo and Booyhoo I would hate to teach your DC. They only ask "why" if they feel it is warranted? So, they interrupt their teachers all the time? Also, "because i said so and i'm bigger than you so what i say, goes." Well, yes, actually. Not because you're bigger, but because you're an adult (and I don't mean an adult in the sense of my DS1 who is 18) and you're their parent. Sometimes because I say so has to suffice for them.

'Tis rather amusing how all of a sudden some children who wouldn't be expected to give up their seats become

'fucking peaches'
'constant interruptors'
'unable to positively interact with other children'

I can understand maybe saying to them "we're going to be talking boring stuff in here, why don't you make yourselves comfy in the other room and leave us oldies to it". Most people would take the hint and move.

But I can't imagine getting arsey about them for being there and demanding they move because it is my right to sit in the dining room, earned after long and arduous intiation rites and not to be given up lightly to any young upstart who drifts my way.

Its got nothing to do with children being seen and not heard.

Its got everything to do with the fact that children do not need to be around adults all the time. And it is more appropriate for a child to sit on the floor than an adult.

And with such a judgemental and poor attitude towards children ILJJ, I would hate for you to teach them.

My children who are at school excel academically and are both complimented regularly on their manners and politeness and always have been.

Where on earth do you get that they interrupt their teachers all the time? Where has it said that?

"They should be off playing because its good for them. Sitting with adults doesnt promote independance or imaginative play. Nor does it provide positive interaction with other children who might be there. "

yes, i agree it is good for them. it's also good for them the other 12-14 hours of the day that they are doing it!

they dont need to be playing non-stop you know! it's perfectly ok to want to sit down now and again.

sitting with adults is very good for children. it teaches them how to engage in proper conversation. teaches them about proper interaction, about how they should speak too one another through the examples they see with the adults, it also teches them how to interact with adults (something alot of children i know, are incapable of!).

Booyhoo, how do they know if someone doesn't need the seat if they don't ask?

There are times in life where children need to do as they're told. "Don't leave the pool gate unlocked." "Stop running in the shopping centre." "Don't steal someone's money." "Don't draw on the walls." Children who refuse to listen to an adult because they are raised to think they are better than other adults (because that's how it works - they don't think they are equal to adults, they think they are better than them) become obnoxious teenagers and rarely change as they grow up.

Also, "because i said so and i'm bigger than you so what i say, goes."

I would never give this as answer to a child for anything!

But having to do some things, without any logical basis, simply because you are a child and someone older tells you to do it, is not acceptable.

I don't understand your argument, Bamboo. What we are talking about is manners, not the whim of an adult. Standing to let an adult sit, waiting till an adult finishes speaking..

to me, these are basic good manners. I would do the same for a person older than me. If there was only one seat, I would let my mum sit, and she is probably fitter than me.

What kind of things would you say are unacceptable to ask a child to do?

Sitting with adults doesnt promote independance or imaginative play

But my niece is 17? and will be turning 18 soon.

She is an extremely independent, and well mannered young lady. She would rather have an adult conversation than play with her 7 year old cousins.

Sorry about that - I think I've been watching too much "Africa" and am visualising OPs Mum's house as the watering hole where the the mature bull elephants battle for superiority over the young newcomers in their claims for status and territory.

Bedtime I think .

Err, no TSC. That was not implied at all and I am not responsible for your interpretation. Nowhere, has it said this anywhere.

Booyhoo, you seem to have a serious personal problem with me.

We differ on opinion. Fine. But there are a lot of other posters saying the same as me, why do you feel the need to keep quoting my posts.

OP, I made it clear that I was speaking about younger children.

Mme my children are well mannered. The oldest would give up a seat if required. No question. It's the fact that other people say they should just because they're a child that is the problem. Every situation will have a different context obviously but, deferring to someone for no good reason simply because that person is older, is not what I teach them is the right thing to do.

ILJJ you are taking this off on a very unnecessary path. and no, my son's teacher has never reported to me that he interupts her.

"because i said so" is a shit response to a child.

I have just spoken to DS1 (18) and DD (16) and, if I understand it correctly, Megan, there was enough room in the dining-room, just not enough seats. They both said they would have wanted to stay in the room to interact with the adults, but would not feel comfortable sitting if their aunts/uncles were standing. They would rather stand, which is what I meant.

Bamboo, I wouldn't say because I'm bigger than you, but i would say, "I'm your parent/carer/an adult and you have to do what I say just because you do. I don't have to justify myself to you in every single way. You, as a DC, do sometimes have to accept that I know best and do what I say."

Nowhere, have I said it's ok to interupt an adult. Nowhere has anybody said this. Why does this keep coming up?

It's not ok to interrupt anybody's conversation, young or old.

i'm quoting you because you keep posting things on this thread that i disagree with. that's how these things work. i dont know you. i have no problem with you. i am just questioning teh comments you have made on this thread. apologies if you have taken that as something else, it really isn't.

'because I said so' is lazy parenting!

How about having enough respect for your child to provide an explanation if they ask 'why'?

If they ask why more than once then the 'because I said so' is more reasonable.

Booyhoo, maybe it is sometimes a shit response, but sometimes that's all they need and all they will get. Maybe I will explain myself to them later, maybe I won't. My DC don't pay the bills in this house and so they don't get the last word. Sometimes their opinion is taken into account and sometimes it isn't. That's the way of the world.

"Don't leave the pool gate unlocked." "Stop running in the shopping centre." "Don't steal someone's money." "Don't draw on the walls."

there are logical reasons for not doing all these things. there is no logical reason to give a seat to someone based on age alone.

as for your comment saying you dont know someone needs a seat til you ask, do you ask everyone that gets on a bus whether they need a seat? children included?