To ask your opinion? Re Children and seating.

[MeganScarlett]

My mum lives by herself in a smallish flat, and for her birthday always has the family over for tea and cake. My mum has four children and each of them has between 2-3 children and now some of them have their own children. So although we're not a large family it can get quite crowded when everyone is there.

The tea and cakes is always served in the dining room which is where all the adults sit and the younger children usually play in the living room. The youngest are between 4-9.

My niece and nephew were sat at the dining room table, they are both aged 17 and 15 and were the first to arrive with my sister. When others started arriving it was made clear by some that they should give up their seats for the adults and be made to sit in the living room with the younger children. I'm in my early 20s and made to feel sometimes that I am not adult enough to be sat with the older adults.

Should they have given up their seats for the older adults?

I'm really of the opinion that they shouldn't have, but others in the family would clearly disagree.

ILJJ I may well do that when my 3 boys are older although my DSD who is 15 has her share of questions and I usually try to give reasonable answers

In that case, Megan, I think they should be included in the adult conversation. I don't think they should be excluded automatically.

If there are other teens who are getting to that age then I am guessing it will resolve itself anyway.

surely if there is something you dont want to explain or justify you would say "i'd rather not explain myself, i just need you to do this for me please" but then at 14/16/18 it would infuriate me no end to be told to do something just "because i said so" at that age i think tehy are old enough to know why tehy need to be doing or not doing something.

I answered those types of questions too...,

Why can't I...

Because I said you can't and I'm your mother and I'm in charge.

Deal with it sweetness.

And they dealt with it.

And they're perfectly happy and contented as adults.

This discussion has completely wandered off the point. A 15 and 17 year old sitting and having adult conversation is one thing. I would expect the host to get extra chairs from another room to ensure that all guests can sit down. A 15 and 17 year old sitting on a train whilst elderly passengers are standing is quite another. And it involves understanding nuance and appropriate behaviour in different social situations, which many children and teenagers do not yet fully understand. Which is why adults need to guide their behaviour appropriately.

If only the questions or the things mine want to do were as simple as that ! I will tell you a little bit about my situation and where I'm coming from. I had a huge fight or two (not physical, but still horrible) with my father and so we didn't visit my parents' house for a long time. Also, for a long time, I didn't want to burden the DC with the fact that we'd had a big falling out because I didn't want to tell them all that had gone on and so I would say "just because". I didn't want to say that I didn't want to as that would have led on to more and more questions that I didn't want to answer. I also didn't want to cry in front of them which I would have done if I had answered them, so it was much easier for me to say "because I say so".

I have been known to say 'it's complicated' in answer to a particularly tricky question, when it has genuinely been difficult to understand.

This is still much better than 'I told you so'

I feel that children should be children. They should be playing or be in the company of other children. Not sitting with the adults. Yes the teenage years are a transition, but no one said the teens in the OP had to leave the dining room, just that they should give the adults the seats. I am sure there was a windowsill on which to perch.

As for explaining myself to my children. No I dont have to. I do where possible, and I will explain things where appropriate. But sometimes, my decision is final and that is the end of the discussion. There may be a million reasons which lead to that decision, but they are my reasons and do not need to be shared. I always act in the best interests of my child. I have no need to question the "because I said so response" because I know I do not do it for wrong reasons.

Fair enough ILJJ . You did what you thought was the right thing given the circumstances, rather than just wanting to exercise a 'I am adult do as i say' mentality.

similar situation here ILJJ. no big row but things are difficult between my mother and I and ds1 has asked a few times whe we dont go anymore. i tell him that i'm not very comfortable at granny's house anymore and would rather not be there, however he is welcome to go whenever he wishes with granny's agreement.

" no one said the teens in the OP had to leave the dining room, just that they should give the adults the seats. I am sure there was a windowsill on which to perch."

which the adults could have perched on.

Bamboo, the thing is, if I were to say "it's complicated", then that wouldn't be the end of the discussion; it would lead on to other questions, so it's sometimes better and simpler for all to say "because I said so" or "I say yes/no".

With regard to the OP, I don't think that the 15 and 17yo should have be made to feel unwelcome or made to leave the room, but they still should have given up their seat at the table to an elder.

Wannabe I am so in agreement with everything you've said.

I wouldn't want it to be the end of the discussion ILJJ. It's just about pre-empting them that they won't be able to fully understand everything. And as I've said, the conversations are age-group specific (i.e. the skate park scenario, rather than 'what is quantitative easing and why did the government do it')
I don't understand everything in life, nobody does but this is no reason for to be dismissive towards children. I never answer them by default with 'because I said so' and never will. My parents never did it to me.

We'll just have to disagree on this one.

When we overflow our dining table we either do shifts, (feed the youngsters 1st and then they vacate to the lounge and chat together, watch TV, play games etc. and then the grown-ups have their meal and stay at the table) or we feed the youngsters in the lounge and the adults at the table. It depends on the numbers and the event.

As we are making and paying for the feast I think it reasonable to make the rules. Obviously we are Fascists.

I haven't read the whole thread (240 posts??) but blimey, it winds me up enough when my young whippersnapper brothers (age 26 and 24) don't make space for my mum (age 60) to sit down when we are all crowded into their house. I would be MORTIFIED if my DD age 4 was seated & an adult was standing. & I sign up to hippy dippy crap about respecting the child as a person, but I want to teach my child to respect other people too!

thank God for Thesecondcoming's approach! Also thank God I am too old to ever come across the outcome of Damnbamboo,s educational ideologies

This discussion has completely wandered off the point. A 15 and 17 year old sitting and having adult conversation is one thing. I would expect the host to get extra chairs from another room to ensure that all guests can sit down. A 15 and 17 year old sitting on a train whilst elderly passengers are standing is quite another. And it involves understanding nuance and appropriate behaviour in different social situations, which many children and teenagers do not yet fully understand. Which is why adults need to guide their behaviour appropriately.

^^
This has hit the nail on the head.

Fucking hell. I have four children, 19, 18, 16 and 3. I would expect each of them to offer a seat to an older or more in need person. I wouldn't have to ask them to shift their arses either, they just would.

It's called manners and respect; something which some posters on this thread are not keen on promoting for their little princes and princesses. Respect is early, one should respect one's elders, if only within one's family.

Slowly but surely a generation of spoilt entitled brats is being raised and the only people to blame are the soft and sycophantic parents.

Respect is not early, but earned. Though it may be early, who knows.

I would expect my teens to give up their chairs to their aunts and uncles, If they wanted to stay in the room they could stand (which I assume the adults would have had to otherwise), if they wanted to sit, they could go into the living room.

I don't see the problem with expecting teenagers to sit with other children. It's not disrespectful to them IMO and surely everyone can move around a bit anyway.
When we're teenagers we think we're adults, but we're not. It can be tiresome trying to have an actual grown up conversation in the company of teenagers, it's a generational thing rather than just an age thing. Yes, it can be a bit boring to have to sit wi younger children whenyou're a teen but thT's family life, you just suck it up. Evyone deserves about of their own choice of company. How many teenagers are happy about their parents or aunties hanging out with them and their mates?

But why don't the PARENTS of the younger children sit in the living room?????
It's really quite simple.
If you insist on an adult only conversation then arrange a covert meeting at midnight, by the hedgrows, wearing your black velvet cloak and hat.
Expecting teenagers to leave the room so that adults can talk at daytime family gatherings is ludicous.

No, it's not ludicrous, it's perfectly reasonable.

They don't need to leave the room though, rather they can sit on their bums if they'd prefer that to perhaps sitting the tilting room.

I am one of 5 there are 9 grandchildren so far, from my oldest at 19 to the youngest at one month. When we have lunches etc at my Mum's, then the children (bar the two tinies) will sit at the kitchen table while very one eats, the adults - ten of us - will sit at the dining table in the adjoining conservatory. There is no segregation, it just works. My older three will help my nephew and my youngest, the other cousins being 12 and 8 worship their big cousins and once we've all eaten we all pile in around the dining table.