To ask your opinion? Re Children and seating.

[MeganScarlett]

My mum lives by herself in a smallish flat, and for her birthday always has the family over for tea and cake. My mum has four children and each of them has between 2-3 children and now some of them have their own children. So although we're not a large family it can get quite crowded when everyone is there.

The tea and cakes is always served in the dining room which is where all the adults sit and the younger children usually play in the living room. The youngest are between 4-9.

My niece and nephew were sat at the dining room table, they are both aged 17 and 15 and were the first to arrive with my sister. When others started arriving it was made clear by some that they should give up their seats for the adults and be made to sit in the living room with the younger children. I'm in my early 20s and made to feel sometimes that I am not adult enough to be sat with the older adults.

Should they have given up their seats for the older adults?

I'm really of the opinion that they shouldn't have, but others in the family would clearly disagree.

Because I dont have any space for any more seats! But I Still like having everyone round :)

No-one has ever complained though (unless they are secretly posting on mn about me haha{

i've just counted. i have 7 seats in the living room (8 if you budge up on the sofa) and 6 kitchen chairs. i've never had 14 people in my house. the most i've had in the last 5 years is probably 5 people at 1 time.

30 and 17 yr old maybe not. But 7 and 40yo, for sure..

Yes well it was very clearly stated the children I am referring to are 15 and 17.

I don't even like to refer to them as children because in my opinions they are nearing adult age.

mme yes, respect does indeed go in both directions. I absolutely agree.

Bamboo
I am 40yo and I would expect a 7yo to stand and give me a seat. Simply cause a 7yo is more used to sitting on the floor than I am and would be able to get back up again without assistance

"If you bring your children not realising that at some times in life, older people might have more say, you will end up with very arrogant children indeed. "

over the issue of entitlement to seat? adults dont have more say. i cannot think of any reason why someone should have more right to a seat based on age alone. can you give me a logical reason why they should? my children understand logic. they dont understand "because i said so and i'm bigger than you so what i say, goes."

But by not giving you their seat it wouldn't mean they disrespected you, any more than giving you their seat means they do respect you!

I would not expect a 7 yo to give me their sit. If they offered and didn't want it, I might take it.

I would make no judgement on them for not offering it.

Because children are more flexible and energetic than adults. Because, chances are, they will go off and play anyway. Or they should.

When I was a child all the children took themselves off and left the adults to it. Even with my cousins only ten years later, they sit in with the adults. Why arent children off playing.

As for 15 and 17 year olds, it is just good manners. Why does anyone bother saying thankyou? Its only a word. But we say it anyway.

I would never dream of sitting on a seat and making my older relatives stand. And I am 25.

what the jeff is verruca salt?

Oh dear TSC

You are really struggling with the fact that some of us believe that on many issues children don't just have to defer to adults, because they older.

that must mean they get everything given to them all the time, without questions and are spoiled nasty brats mustn't it

Verrucca Salt - a character from Willie Wonka!

I want it now!!!!!

This is a ridiculous argument that has nothing to do with the OP's question.

I don't think I have ever told my DC that they must automatically respect people older than themselves, but I have taught them to respect others. Including those older than themselves.

It is a fact of life, however, that adults have more power in this world than children. You may not like it, but if you bring your children up to constantly challenge this idea, then you may well be preparing them for a good few years of conflict.

Schools do not work on the basis of everyone being equal. The teacher is the person in authority.

AS to the OP, I have said that IMO it depends on the attitude of the young person. I also think that this will be somethign that will resolve itself as the younger generation grow older - they will either not want to come alone to gran's house, or they will automatically 'graduate' to the grown up's table.

"chances are, they will go off and play anyway. Or they should."

why should they? if they want to get up and leave, no problem, but why should they if tehy dont want to?

"Why does anyone bother saying thankyou?"

because an act has been carried out that benefits you and you are grateful?

there is no act carried out for your benefit in the sitiuation where someone exists who is older than you that you need to do something about. there isn't anything in them being older that you need to show respect for. show respect for them as another human by being civil and mannerly in general but no reason at all to put yourself in a worse situation for them because you were born later. there is no logic in that at all.

I'm 35 oh shit 36 and I would stand up on a bus, train, or anywhere else for someone older than me or that I thought needed it. I would be mortified if my child didn't offer his seat to someone. I would be mortified if I didn't offer my seat to someone.

The problem with assuming that your little darlings shouldn't have to give up their seats is that they will grow up with the same entitlement. They'll be 36 and looking at an elderly person on the train thinking "well I've got as much right as her to a seat, so she can get stuffed." Teaching children to at least offer their seat to someone means that they are being raised with manners and consideration for other people. Forums like this are constantly banging on about hidden disabilities and about being aware of people around you, except obviously when it comes to their children having their arses on a seat.

thanks apostrpheuse! never read willy wonka.

havnt read the whole thread,but i have 2 things to say

no,they shouldnt be banished to where the kids are.

and

apartbfrom the basics(asking for something nicely,saying thankyou and excuse me if you want to get past someone and just generally being friendly) i hate "manners" they are stupid and just something old people use to boss kids about.Not leaving the table before anyone else,giving up your seat because you are 15 and someone else is 30,its ridiculous.

And I am getting shade of "children should be seen and not hear" from certain people

I think this is off topic Mme although I don't disagree with most of what you've said.

Clearly there are hierarchies in society, of course there are. But having to do some things, without any logical basis, simply because you are a child and someone older tells you to do it, is not acceptable.

This is separate to teaching your child basic courtesy and manners and more about the attitudes of adults to children.

I seriously don't see why a 17year should be made to go and babysit someone else's 4 year old just because the parent wants to sit where the 17 year old is sitting.

If I go to say the cinema and someone slightly older than me, without any disability etc decides that actually they want to sit where I am sat, do you seriously think it is reasonable to expect me to move?
Well get this, I sure as hell aren't moving.

It has nothing to do with the teenagers being disrespectful, some teenagers prefer to sit and chat with adults. From the ops post a lot of the adults were closer in age to the teenagers than the teenagers were to the kids.
My ds would rather sit with other teenagers, not adults but then again not young children either, so Lord knows where he would fit in.

Nowhere have I said I was a better parent TSC and this thread isn't actually about parenting at all. Yes, my children are well mannered, polite and respectful and I didn't say yours weren't. Your daughter sounds lovely.

Booyhoo, you are deliberately misrepresenting what I say.

Lets all pander to our little darlings eh? Give up adult conversation in favour of child friendly, being constantly interrupted.

If your children dont want to go to school do you let them stay off?

They should be off playing because its good for them. Sitting with adults doesnt promote independance or imaginative play. Nor does it provide positive interaction with other children who might be there.

midnite i have perfectly polite children who dont feel they are obliged to give up what is theirs to someone else jsut because someone else fancies it for themselves. if someone has a greater need for the seat it would of course be offered, but someone who is older does not automatically have a greater need for the seat than a child.