To not feel rich even though husband earns £250k a year

[whoovian]

I don't feel rich - I scarcely feel comfortable on this level of income.

Why is that - I grew up in a very poor family (not enough food at times type of poor) so I know what poverty feels like.

We are not extravagent spenders - we have one 1 week european holiday a year, no savings however we do have 4 children in private school(!) and live in London.

I feel unreasonable when I consider how little income others survive on but what do you think?

It doesn't mean that you get greedier it just means you don't feel different or special

I think this might be the core issue. My first salary was £3,000 pa (in 1975) and it was considered good at that place and time. It was only a stepping stone to me, though, so I didn't feel even a bit well off until I secured the promotion I wanted. The following year I got it, with a raise to £7,500. I vividly recall going to work, the third month in my new job, and adding up the retail cost of the clothes I was wearing: £75! (This would be worth £496 today, so pretty extravagant.) I felt 'special' because it was part of my personal definition of success - up to then I made nearly all my own clothes.

Later on, I felt the same sense of "being there" through other things. Often they were purchases: buying original art was a big one for me. Sometimes they were more fluffy values, like sponsoring a poor African child and being able to help a sibling with their first home. My brother and I rescued a family member who'd been robbed overseas; we felt massively grateful to have the funds and the know-how to effect it. After losing my lifestyle, I sold everything except a couple of small pieces of art. They have no resale value but still afford me great pleasure - and I've only got them because I could once afford them.

You need to have ideas in your head about what success looks like to you personally; what makes you 'special' in your own eyes. Amongst my still-rich friends there's one with enormous financial investments, one with an amazing designer wardrobe, one who's bought the freedom to be an artist and another investing in woodland eco projects. None wants what the others have; all feel where they are 'meant' to be.

How's your personal assessment coming along, Whoovian?

I assume you were state educated, OP, so feel comfortable with that. Your dh, on the other hand, feels private education is what "people like him" do .

For me, paying for education (and at one point we did have a think about it) just feels uncomfortable. It's nothing to do with being altruistic/supporting the system etc etc, it's because I would just feel sort of mugged having to pay for schooling when I had a very good education for nowt.

Dh's boss struggles to pay for school fees but when dh mentioned state schools his boss looked sort of vague and stared into the middle distance. He said his family have always been to X and his family would disown him if he let his dcs down.

Hah, Letty, sounds like your DH might be working under Whoovian's

OP's DH's private education obviously worked well for him. It is not suprising he would like to give his DCs the same schooling. Whether it is the sensible thing to do is another matter.

Good Lord... you may be right.

Interestingly, the OP's household contributes a significant amount of income tax as well has freeing up 4 spaces in the state educational system and they have been nothing short of lynched by other members?

Admittedly, the OP has quite put her point of view across as eloquently as possible however I understand the sentiment behind it.

Very few people consider themselves rich because there's normally somebody somewhere who's income is more than yours. Statistically, yes, the OP's household will be in the top 1%, but that top 1% always includes individuals with 7 or 8 figure incomes.

That's the thing though LaQueen. These people ARE spending their disposable income... on horses and nice cars... they just don't view it like that.

It depends what you see as your disposable income. For me that is everything after rent, elec, and council tax. Food, pets, tv license etc is what I feel I get to spend on myself... Food wise I can live off £100 a month if I have to, so I feel spending more is a luxury and what I chose to spend my disposable income on.

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I do believe that is on Team OP.

Agree with most of that LaQueen.

But as others have said, the op [though I think in her case it is really her DH], has choices.
There is a MN on MN, though I dont think on this thread, and hope she doesnt mind me repeating what she wrote, who used to work in an estate agents.
And she said that the flashy people were sometimes struggling to get a mortgage for a house, whereas there were other clients who used to shuffle in in scruffy clothes, and pay for houses with wads of cash.

Friend used to be a financial adviser on the Isle of Wight. Visited people in scruffy old bungalows where he was offered value tea and value digestives - if he was lucky. Turned out many of them had millions in the bank. But they sat there and moaned to him about the cost of living and how they were poor pensioners.

This is all about expectation. The OP thought she would 'feel' different as this income level and doesn't. She is not struggling at all.

LaQuuen I think it is good not to get both Not sure what that says about me though

@letty I think that is quite a big problem for the government. The lack of awareness by the older generation about what is a normal amount of money.

In my family we have to feel sorry for my poor old granny and her £750,000 house, range rover and husbands final salary pension.

But you can't complain about it on MN. No no. That would be ageist and old people bashing.

As an aside, I think that many people further down the ladder (I earn national average in London myself) don't realise how much is spent on taxes once you go over £35k and don't realise that a £100k salary is really only about £60K take home, and the costs associated with having a £100k salary (childcare, house in commutable area, commute etc) add up to about £40k without batting an eyelid.

Dh's train season ticket cost over £5K. Dh is a perennial glass half-full kind of guy and was happy he'd got a bargain by beating the price increase by one day

There will always be somebody better off than you. Equally there will always be somebody worse off than you.

I think it's a shame with with £42k left after expenses the OP does not feel 'comfortable'. I didn't plough through the whole discussion but did she say what she would class as 'comfortable'?

Why do you feel so hard done by OP? Do you compare yourself to others or do you feel resentful that despite earning such a huge income, you don't have more than £42k left?

I am assuming that you would need to take out food shopping, utility bills, after school activities and other expenses from that total.

I think what makes the difference with income is that it gives you choices. The poorest don't have choices, they make do. The richer you are the more choices you have. So if little Jemima wanted to take up violin classes, it's not a problem. If the school organised a trekking holiday through Peru, again it's not a problem.

Resentment builds when you have someone who has all those choices and yet is still dissatisfied. I must admit that I cannot understand that.

The OP needs to re-examine her life and what what she hopes to get out of life. She is clearly dissatisfied with the choices she has, so what exactly is she yearning for? Why doesn't she feel comfortable and what would change that?

Sometimes more money isn't the answer. It's your way of life and your priorities that need to change. Perhaps volunteering would change the way you see yourself and make you feel happier with your lot.

I can understand what OP says. In recent years DP and I have had a joint income of just under £200k one year and just over £35k a couple of years later. I never felt comfortable on either. For me it's probably due to childhood. We weren't actually poor but my parents could manage their income and there were perpetual problems with debts and second mortgages etc. I spent my whole childhood listening to my parents arguing about why there was no spare cash. And so I doubt I'll ever feel "comfortable" - regardless of how much income I have.

I wonder if the OP's husband feels rich or if it is both of them feeling not well of.

Fluffy1234 I've got a feeling the OP's DH is working all hours to try and meet the needs of his DP to feel rich.

Most of what you wrote has already been covered and answered by the op, SitCliff.
But I dont think we have previously asked her at what level she would feel comfortable.
I suspect she wont come back on here again, but is probably still reading the comments.
I and some others do think she knows this may not all be to do with having more money at all.

The whole thread is fascinating. If the OP doesn't feel even comfortable on that household income I wonder why she only went back to work part time a year ago and not before. I think it's more about not having control how and on what the money is spent.

Thanks amillionyears. I got 5 pages in and that was as much as I could take!

I think the more money you have the happier you are because having money does open up those all important choices. You know you don't have to accept second best in life. You can choose where you go on holiday and you don't have to scrimp and sacrifice anything to get there. Your children's talents can be encouraged and nurtered thanks to afterschool clubs and their experiences can be enriched with school trips.

So I think it's largely a fallacy that the poorest are often the happiest. This is why threads like this go the way they do, because of course there is resentment over what some have and what others don't have.

The resentment builds because a lot of us on low incomes see the wealthier people taking those choices and their wealth for granted. That's not to say that we wouldn't do the same in that situation. After all, we take the fact that our children even get an education for granted. That we have clean water and free healthcare. But you can only compare against those you see around you. Some people don't see many others who are struggling like them, instead they see threads like this and for them it epitomises the so called arrogance of the wealthy in bemoaning their lot when others are forced to go to Food Banks to feed their families.

It's fully understandable why the OP got so much stick, especially in this ever-lasting recession which is causing severe hardship to many.

The OP's issues may have nothing to do with money and may just reflect her general dissatisfaction with life. Perhaps putting it down to a feeling of not earning enough gives her the excuse not to delve too deeply into other reasons. If we put ourselves into her shoes we might experience the same dissatisfaction with life.

But please, no more ancedotes about how much happier the poor are as it is rather condescending. No-one chooses to be poor. Yes there are wonderful people who are happy with their lot and they tend to be the ones who give the most back to their communities, but others would love to have the choices that many take for granted and if they did, there is no doubt their lives would be made much happier for it.

Gosh, such hate!

IIWY:

1. Keep your London house and rent it out.
2. Move to Kent or Buckinghamshire or where there are grammar schools
3. The rent and the school fee savings will pay for your second mortgage

Then you will be rich! School fees are astronomical, they swallow so much of a person's income.