To not want to take my children to Australia?

[Andro]

I never thought I'd say this, but I really need the views of someone not connected to my situation.

Background: My DH and I are the adoptive parents of his sister's children (DS 9 and DD 5), we took them on after their parents were killed in a accident and the adoption was finalised just over a year ago. I couldn't love them more!

Problem: My in-laws live in Australia and are demanding that we take our DC to visit in the summer holidays, I've said no and now we are heading for war.

DS has a serious phobia of flying; not long before is DP died they were on a flight that had to make an emergency landing, he was bumped around pretty badly and he now has some serious problems. We didn't realise how bad his fear was (I don't think he knew either tbh) until we tried to take a flight to Ireland, the panic attack he had was so bad he had to be taken to hospital by ambulance, sedated until his vital signs stabilized and spent a few days there for observation. DS is now having treatment for his phobia, he is making progress but it's slow going and his therapist agrees that any flight right now would be counter-productive. My in-laws know all this, it has been explained to them in detail and both have acknowledged that over 24h of flight time for a phobic child is, and I quote "less than ideal".

Let battle commence: They have suggested that I should drug DS for the duration of the journey...I just about hit the roof! I have no problem with an adult choosing to take medication in order to travel, but to suggest I do that to a child? I don't even know if a doctor would agree to but in truth I don't care! My DH is in a lousy situation, he really wants to support me but is being emotionally blackmailed by his parents. I feel sorry for him really because his Mother really does know which buttons to press. She had tried everything from 'we haven't seen them since the funeral and we miss them terribly, we might not see them again if you don't bring them over' to 'it's not as if they're her (my) blood family, why should she have any say?' and just about everything in-between. DH is trying to hold strong but his Mother is getting to him and it's causing some heated discussions between us.

Summary: AIBU to refuse to consider drugging my DS in order to take him on a long haul flight?

(sorry for the mammoth post)

Andro, I can't see anything in any of your posts which suggests that you have anything but the best interests of your DCs in mind. You have taken professional advice and let the children guide you; you have facilitated good communication between the DCs and all of their extended family; and you have put their needs first above everyone else.

Being in the room during conversations between the children and their GM is a natural family thing to happen and it being on Skype makes no difference to that. A nine year old child doesn't need secrets or private conversations from his parents. Our DSs (10 and 8) have great Skype calls with family overseas but we don't isolate them to do it.

Your DMIL is hurting but it sounds as if lashing out about you, totally inappropriately to your DS, may have a root in her opinion of you before the accident which claimed her DD and DSIL. What were things like before?

gotthemoon - quite. My mother died when I was younger than these children. I have one mother - she died. No-one else is my mother. The Op - who is no blood relation - seems to be minimizing the GPs who have lost their daughter. She needs to deal with this in a more sensitive manner. My GPs were EXTREMELY upset when my mother died. It should NOT be about OPs feelings at all. No laying down the law, and her being upset about GPs views. It should SOLELY be about maintaining the relationship between the dcs and their GPs. And finding a working way of doing so.

notmyproblem - obviously you have NO clue about losing your parents as a child.

So Mira do you think a traumatised little boy with a phobia of flying should be compelled to take a 24 hour flight to meet the needs of his grieving granparents?

No - I don't at all - and never said that. I think that OP should not be getting all angsty and needs to consider the GPs feeling in all this - which she is not.

It is astonishing that people are skeptical that the late parent's wishes are being questioned.

I have a daughter and we have discussed fully with our relatives (who would adopt her) how we would manage this, finances, our wishes for her, which country she would live in etc. I don't plan on dying but feel assured that she would go to someone we trust, if anything should happen to us.

OP- you sound the perfect choice for your relatives to have chosen.

She is not "minimising the GPs who have lost their daughter." The only reason she is objecting to travelling to Australia is because her ds has a phobia of flying. The GM has suggested drugging the child to get around this and the OP (and her husband, don't forget) are not willing to do this. And I can't imagine there are many doctors who'd agree it was a good idea either. So they've suggested an alternative, that the GPs come here (in order to maintain the relationship) but that idea's been refused (for understandable reasons re: the scene of the acident) and also the suggestion of meeting up elsewhere (refusal of this idea not so understandable).
I don't, therefore, see any evidence in what we've been told here, of the OP trying to obstruct relations.
But I too wonder if there's a back story here, from before the accident. There certainly seems to be some deep-seated resentment coming out here from the MIL. But then, grief can do awful things to people.

EleanorCuntBucket we also discussed all this in detail when we had children / did our will. Ours even specifies how my sister could go about extending her house, getting a new car, financing family holidays.

I am not planning to die, but if I do I want it to be easy.

Mira, again I am sorry for your loss, but I think you are seeing problems which are not there. The "no blood relation" comments in particular are very unpleasant.

Mira - as a parent, surely you should be putting the needs of your children above others.

The op has offered to meet hot the pil or meet them for a vacation. What else do you suggests she do?

Arrrg, tried to edit...host the pil

Mira, I'm finding your posts in this thread quite harsh, and you seem to be reading a completely different set of posts from the OP to the rest of us.

Perhaps you are projecting from your own situation, I don't know, but there is nothing in this thread to suggest that OP is minimising the GPs. The GPs moved to the other side of the world and are now expecting their already traumatised grandson to go through something incredibly distressing for no ones benefit except their own.

You are wrong to say that it should not be about OPs feelings. Her feelings are very important here. Not as important as that of the children, but important none the less. And as she is the one who is looking after the children day in day out, her feelings are way more important than those of the grandparents who have behaved very selfishly and very unkindly.

And if it helps, I lost a parent as a child, and agree with notmyproblem's post.

I think you are doing the right thing -
Of course you are! Your ds is scared of flying his gran wants you to drug him on the flight to see him, and some posters think you need to stop putting your feelings above the grieving gran??? Mind boggles.

She would be on a flight straight away if she had any sense instead of putting a small child through such stress.

Mira, of course the gp's feelings need to be considered because of their grief but I don't imagine you or anyone else would suggest that their grief for their daughter trumps that of the children for their parents. They are adults and, as such, it is incumbent on them to put the needs of their grandchildren before their own. That means not insisting on the child flying all that way (which would be an unreasonable position without the phobia, imo) and it also means not undermining the op's role in their lives by saying such nasty and manipulative things as have been said. It is unfair of anyone, grieving or not, to place a burden like that on a child, let alone a grieving child.

MiraWard you are way out of order here. We feel your pain but you ought to be bloody ashamed.

Why shouldn't the children call them parent type names? Bad enough that the dc lost their biological parents but are they supposed to spend the next 15 years explaining to every friend, every passer by, et al that these aren't their real parents but they live with them etc etc? Children want normality. These children are lucky enough to have loving and capable adults ready to step in to their parents shoes when their parents couldn't be with them anymore. It's absolutely right that they are allowed to name them as such.

The OP is not trying to drive a wedge between grandparents and children but I do think that's what MIL thinks is happening. I don't think she's coping very well, understandably, and what she's seeing is the OP stopping the children coming to her home. She probably thinks OP, that you've made up the phobia to keep the children to yourself. As a parent whose lost a child I think she must be pretty desperate to keep up the connection and I think she's hugely over-reacted to this disappointment. So - you are quite right not to fly but do try and keep the communication channels open. MIL must be told that she cannot bad mouth you to the dcs - it hurts the dcs far more than it does you - but otherwise I would try and move past this. If they choose not to come over well that's their loss at this point. Just keep the door open and when ds can cope with it get on the plane.

And Mira - before this thread becomes more about you than the OP - I'd ask you to read my post 20:00:18 and stop projecting.
I'm sorry you lost your parents young but this is not your situation.

OP I don't know why you're getting so much shit. You and your DH have made the right decision for your DS.

I'm sorry - I feel too angry to engage with this further but I think you are doing an excellent job OP in extremely difficult circumstances.
All the very best to you and your family - from what you've written, I'm sure you have the best interests of your children at heart.

Mira - I think you are taking this personally.

You don't know what the parents' wishes were. You don't accept the legal position of the op in relation to the adoption - if you were left with a df your situation is different to these dc.

These aren't your kind doting gps - these are gp who are not considering their dgc at all and being highly unpleasant. The op is helping to maintain contact despite their unpleasantness both to the op and now their own dgc.

Yanbu op - so sorry you're having to deal with this when you need your energy for ds.

I've been lurking on this thread for a while. I know my situation is very very different but my PIL opted to move away; it was MIL dream to retire in this particular location, as she grew up there but now they've moved, they frequently put me under pressure to visit.

I honestly think she had all these dreams of wonderful Christmases surrounded by her GCs, showing them around, treating them there and not forgetting showing them off to her friends and extended family up there. Understandable I suppose. But I am resentful as it wasn't my decision for them to up sticks and move so far away and the pressure I am put under to visit and moreover to stay for extended periods of time, makes me extremely cross. It's not about how inconvenient the journey is for me and the DCs but all about her and she doesn't want to come here or arrange to stay locally of course.

Truthfully I am having great difficulty not imagining the OPs MIL having a similar agenda but I know my experience is causing me to be bias.

Anyway YANBU to not want to take your adopted son on a long and distressing flight that he has a phobia to. The MIL is only thinking about her and not him here. You have offered a good alternative as well, with meeting in a holiday cottage elsewhere.

I have had to read books like Anne Dickson's to help me to become more assertive with my MIL. I do go and visit but even then the visits can be fraught I am always in ear shot when she speaks to my DCs as she has form for passively aggressively mentioning how they should come to visit, her amongst other things.

I wish you luck and do come back and tell us what was agreed in the end.

Oops I hadn't refreshed the thread for a while. It seems it's moved on a lot

I am not taking this personally - it is not about me. I am thinking of the children here, not the OP, not the GPs, The OP needs to find a better way to make this work.

Mira - the boy is scared of flying what better way is there if making it work??????

MiraWard the OP has found a fantastic way of making this work. She is not the problem here.
You've said some things on this thread that are pretty offensive to both adoptive parents and children.

*of