To make it my mission to teach this little girl to read?

[Seekingadvice13]

I'm a regular poster but have name changed just in case for this.

My mum has recently started looking after the dd of a woman who lives near her and she knows a bit, wouldn't exactly call her a friend. She's going to be having her two evenings a week when the dd goes back to school, as the mother has found herself a job and has nowhere to send the dd on those nights- she's been unemployed for a while now so my mum wants to help her try and hold down a job as much as possible. We don't knowing about the mother but its not an ideal family set up, just the two of them and social services have been involved in the past. I'm living with my mum ATM for various reasons, I also can't work ATM so I have and will be seeing the dd fairly regularly.

We've had her over quite a bit since Christmas, and I discovered a few days ago that she can't read. She's 7, in year 3, and she doesn't seem to have a clue. I don't have my own Dcs yet so i don't have anything to compare to yet but surely not being able even sound out short words aged 7 isn't good? My mum mentioned it briefly to the mother, she is aware but basically said her dd is just "thick" and can't learn, end of. I don't get the impression she's helping at home at all.

She's not thick, you can tell that much from spending time for her. She just can't read.

The mother's English isn't brilliant, she speaks to the dd in Albanian, they also speak another obscure language at home. The DDs spoken English is perfect though, no issues there.

Clearly the mother isn't going to do anything, would it be completely overstepping the mark to attempt and teach the dd to read when she's round here? I don't really know what I'm doing, going to have to do some research, but I refuse to believe she's just "thick" and deserves to be written off. Or is this interfering?

Oh, sure - I was just meaning, I think some posters (me, anyway!) were not so much being negative about her trying, as thinking of all the possible reasons to feel nervous. But it's good she can be reassured now by people who know.

The mum grew up in a former Yugoslavian country, the grandfather is from there and the grandmother is from the same country as my mum, where education for women isn't exactly high on the agenda. The DD was born here. So LRD you could be right there. I don't have any of the homework material ATM but she's going to bring some when she goes back to school and we're going to do it together :)

Apparently she normally just doesn't hand it in because she can't do it- speculating here but Im worried she could have been written off by school as not trying IYSWIM :(

It sounds as if it will be fascinating for you - and I'm sure it will be good for her. You mustn't feel bad if you don't immediately make progress. Just the experience of being read to and treated as clever must be a good thing.

I don't know - but certainly in some cultures, you're not really meant to try unless it's perfect. Maybe her mum is not getting good enough communication from the school about what homework is for? - I mean, that it's for trying your best, rather than knowing exactly what the answer is.

Poor little girl.
OP, I think this little girl might have special needs (not all special needs are obvious).
If she cannot even sound out simple words at the age of 7, it is very possible.

I have a son with special needs, I also told myself I would teach him to read. It is MUCH more difficult than you think when the child has underlying difficulties. I now leave it to the experts and support him at home as much as possible (but the teaching has to happen at school).

I would advice you to my careful about what you "offer" as help, maybe the help this little girl actually needs is someone to be their advocate at school and get her the right help.

How are her maths for example? Its not just about reading.

lastsplash screw what she thinks about the kid's mother, she's offering to help the kid out. That's more important.

Boomerwang - except I don't think it will help the child, if it is predicated on undermining their parent and making judgements about their background.

I couldn't count the number of patronising teachers and professionals from my school years who made all sorts of assumptions about the pupils, the deprivation of our backgrounds, the lack of care and support they perceived, usually based on stereotypical prejudice about inner city state schools and ethnic minorities. They showed their judgment of us and difference from us in everything they did and said. I honestly believe the negative psychological impact that had, outweighed any positive benefit of their 'education'.

I think you could offer to do the girls school reading with her.

I think it would be inappropriate to "teach her to read".

Once you have listened to her school reading books you'll have more of an idea of how to help her.

its called 'mystification' - the process of making something simple seem difficult so that professionals retain ownership of it.
'don't teach her to read...you'll undermine her teachers and her mother!'
yeah, right.
ok, don't teach her to read.
when she comes round, do something nice, like making biscuits.
before she arrives:
write out a recipe, simply, quite large.
label the ingredients and utensils.
tell her to make the biscuits, you have to look at the recipe, can she help you?
show her a word eg 'sugar' and ask her to get the sugar from the cupboard.
etc.
you could use alphabet biscuit cutters for your biscuits, too.
recognise words, read, cook, eat biscuits.

NO!
Of course it's not rocket science teaching a child to read, but you don't know what issues this kid has around not being able to read, and you bumbling in in your size 11s could be another brick in the wall for her.What she needs is a place to feel safe an relax after school, if she is stressed, and feels thick, about not being able to read then some well meaning busybody pressing more on her could be very counterproductive.
with the mother's express permission you could hear her read her school reading book or help her with her school homework, but there it stops.

I am based in a school where 80% of the children have English as a second language. The majority of them rent housing and move every 6 months so there is more mobility than usual. Only 20% of children go throught the whole school. There is no continuity and a whole host of other underlying issues.

The reading is abysmal. The schools is on special measures for reading and writing. And to be honest the displays that some of the TEACHERS and TAs put labels on (ie the adults' work) don't fill me with confidence that they have a solid grasp of spelling and grammar themselves.

Additionally many of the parents cannot read in their own languages. Some fathers actively discourage their wives and daughters from learning to read, and will not admit they they can't as that would undermine their authority as father-figures. Some families come from non-literate (verbal) cultures and don't value literacy highly, some don't want their children to learn to read English because they don't want them to be able to "buy-into" western culture, some come from single parent families where the mother/grandmother can't read because they come from cultures where female education is actively discouraged. They will often blame their child for being stupid rather than admit that they can't read themselves.

I work for the library service and am part of an initiative to try and get parents/grandparents/ adult carers to actively engage with the child in any language and to encourage comunication: counting, singing, talking (rather than TV/phone/console) and, of course, sharing books and stories.

OP, please don't let this child down. She may well have been massively failed by an over-stretched system that just can't cope. If you have the time to help her with homework, listen to her read her school reading book, or do "literacy-ready" activities like cookery with her. It may be the spark she needs to get her going.

What is wrong with the OP just doing a bit of reading with this girl. When friend's children are round at mine, this is something I might do. Also as a parent you would do this surely.

Rather than it being a mission to teach her to read OP, maybe just spend a bit of time with her, looking at books, keep it low key.

Nelly jelly- you hear your children's friends read when they come over to play.I wouldn't be very happy with that.I would regard it as snooping ,I'm afraid!

A firnd of mine's child couldn't read at the end of Y2 and the school advised a complete break from it for 6 weeks.When he went back to it anew the cycle of negativity was broken and it 'clicked' nearly straightaway.

I'm a former secondary teacher and now teach adults basic skills - normally young mums who left school with no qualifications, my charity regularly assesses young women who have no functionally measurable reading age. I only teach in English and don't do EAL work though I'm planning to get Tesol qualification soon. My children, however, are bilingual (they're educated in Gaelic even though my dh and I are monolingual) and yes, they were "behind" in reading at age 7 but now (they're 9, 10, 12) they're very much on a par with monolingual children.

The best advice I can give is read, read, read. Maybe lots of picture books (even at 7, Julia Donaldson, Oliver Jeffers, dr Seuss etc would be great) but also I'd recommend choosing a "chapter book" you or your mum could read when she's there. Start within"The Owl Who Was Afraid Of The Dark", it's magic!

Yes you are an amateur! But so am I - I was trained to teach geography, not reading! Any literacy input will be good, and will hopefully mean she doesn't need the service I work for when she has a child herself but can't read the homework, which is the most common self- referral issue we deal with.

Just read! It's lovely, bonding, fun and educational!

Socharlotte that is beyond bizzare! What's wrong with listening to children read??

weegiemum - my experience is very similar. My girls are educated in a different language and their reading is a bit behind, although they are fine with all other subjects.

My mum doesn't know any of their language at all but these last two weeks has been helping them read every day, and they are both improving.

Socharlotte - that is so sad, that you would consider it snooping.

Leave it to the professionals? Because the professionals have had resounding success so far, haven't they?

I think Hesterton has some excellent advice.

And LRD is right about bilingualism - long-term advantages but it does make it harder initially when learning to read.

How bizarre! So my DD and her friends are playing schools and reading to each other, or showing off a bit and reading to me........somehow that is snooping? FFS. How precious can you get.

I think it is lovely that you want to help.
Are the school aware that you or your mum could be collecting her?

Schools simply don't have the resources to say leave it to the professionals.

For a short period in primary the friend DD2 "teaches" got lots of support.

Why, because they had a trainee TA doing unpaid works experience.

It' s a small school in a relatively affluent area, with falling rolls. Per pupil funding is tiny, pupil premium pretty non existant. TA hours get cut every year.

I'm firmly in the "support SeekingAdvice13" camp - well done, that gal!

The more I read about the mum the more I'm convinced that getting her "permission" is irrelevant. Calling her "thick", leaving her uncared-for for long periods, the boyfriend issues, the joblessness herself, the social services having been involved before, etc, all doesn't look good, so extra kudos to you for wanting to help out.

Frankly, if the mother can't appreciate that you're offering to help - for free - with something this important, that's pretty sad. But if she compounds calling her daughter thick with discouraging education with discouraging anybody who would try to help, I'd actually look on that as another form of child abuse, and would seriously consider getting social services interested again.

Whether or not it's a cultural thing (and I'm just not going to go there), the daughter is getting no support from her mother in not just reading but life in general. You're not even trying to change her entire life, just help out with one skill that the daughter WILL need going forward in this society.

Honestly, if the UK had even 10% more people like you, SA13, we'd all be better off.

Keep us up to date on your progress! And best of luck.

'So my DD and her friends are playing schools and reading to each other, or showing off a bit and reading to me........somehow that is snooping?'

No because in that case the child is instigating it.That is a completely different scenario to the adult instigating 'reading lessons' which this Op is suggesting.

Socharlotte You said up thread that nelly listening to a friend's child read was snooping.

I still cannot see how you would ever think that. It's just suspicious and weird.

This is complex, so bare with me!!

My ExH Sis married a man who already had DC. One of them was a 12 year old girl! Adorable and had no clue how to tell the time. I sat with her for half an hour and she got it! All it took was that little bit of input from some random in her life to improve it just that little bit.

I think it would be very hard to spend time with a 7 year old, fresh from school, and NOT listen to them read. If you also happen to have other books she might enjoy hanging atound the place, then so be it!!

No mother could really object to something that could benefit their child surely!!

Do what you can, when you can and good luck to you.