Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

---------

I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

Erm, you literally just said they can't enforce it in practice. If they can't enforce it how can they issue fines?

I said it is a lesser evil to expect anyone to go home from the start of their journey than it is to dump a vulnerable family off the bus without them knowing where they are/being able to have access to shelter/being able to make other arrangements. That's all, that's not disablist that is simply an argument against dumping people off the bus.

Not everyone can fold...

A vulnerable family.
Yet a wheelchair user at risk of hypothermia from waiting 90 mins for a bus to let them on because buggy users won't fold "can just go home"

I'd wager that this inability to enforce a wheelchair users right of access disappears by magic overnight once this case is won and compensation awarded. It'll be enforced then without the need for pram spaces, folding options, fixed penalty notices, pre-booking or any other compromises. It'll be enforced by a complete ban if necessary. You can guarantee one way or the other it will be enforced.

Offred, are you high/functionally drunk?

You're repeating yourself a lot, not following others posts directed to you (even when they are very simple and direct) and being very selfish.

I find it perplexing.

It wasn't much earlier in the thread it was in the response to your question about what happens when the pram space is full and you want to get on with a pram, that question that you repeated because you clearly didn't read my answer the first time. As you would see if you fully quoted rather than half quoted the post.

I give up.

Me too Maryz

Seriously a haemorrhage can actually kill you not going to the shop is not likely to. Not picking up your child is quite a lot worse than not going to the shop too. That post was not about rights to wheelchair spaces it was about wheelchair users choosing to ban prams from buses completely so that buses travelled round with empty spaces half the time just in case.

NolittleBuddahsorTigerMomshere - I realise the thread has moved on, but to answer your question: yes, I live in a city, and one which is very popular with tourists, which supports your point.
For us, the system seems to work (though I'm not an expert)

How do you know your need is greater?
How do you know the shop they need isn't a pharmacy to get life saving medication?

Bloody hell I messages HQ HOURS ago about this, is anyone there?

Because this thread is not about prams having access to wheelchair spaces, it is about these proposals to kick prams off buses.

"No one is arguing for an equal right to the disabled space. I am saying wheelchairs should have a dedicated (rather than the current multiuse) space and it should be illegal to block it with anything and that in order to do this in practice a bus company has to make a pram space and a luggage rack otherwise bus drivers will let the wheelchair space be blocked"

It's not multiuse Offred, it a wheelchair space!

Offred.

What would you do in a theoretical situation where you were using a pram and a wheelchair user got on, meaning you either had to fold, or get off? (Or what have you done if it happened in real life?)

[finally goes completely stark staring mad and runs screaming through thread]

Unhelpful, perhaps, but how my brief sift through the last few pages of this thread has made me feel.

Why offred would a wheelchair user having to go home be the lesser of two evils? It may be inconvenient for the pushchair to be folded or for them to have to get off (getting off would be their choice) but its pretty shitty fir the wheelchair user ti have to go home, esp as you can pretty much guarantee that EVERY time they go to wait for a bus there will be a pushchair on it. So you are essentially saying they cant go out at all!! On what fucking planet is thst preferrable to someone with a pushchair having to fold it or get off? Either way they can still.continue with their journey, a wherlchair usrr who has to go home because the space is full cannot do what they need to!!

Bollocks! it's about unfolded prams containing NT children with a NT carer.

I need a large

I am going to regret asking this, I know I am, but why are people arguing for a wheelchair space when there is in fact a wheelchair space, and the whole point of this thread was that someone is being threatened with legal action in relation to what they concede to be a wheelchair space?

Isn't the argument just about how the wheelchair space is protected from entitled dickheads who appear to have lost the use of both their compassion and folding muscles?

Oh Offered, give it up! Stop carping at me specifically, when others have pointed how off some of your comments have been.