Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

Glitter, that's great, but atm you can't get 2 adult chairs +baby in sling n 1 space

I've never trusted cows. They huddle together. Mutter to each other. Stare you out. Mutter some more. Evil feckers.

I don't feel the number of children disables me. I said when I needed to use the bus because walking could actually have physically killed me but I needed to pick my son up from school I needed to use a bus. It is not one or another. You don't have to be disabled to have needs and having needs doesn't mean you are disabled.

Maybe we should leave Boris out in the middle of nowhere, to fend off the zombie cows?

And hide the cattle prod.

And quite apart from anything else it is not an issue which would affect me now because my twins don't use a pram or pushchair anymore.

Can we stop being cow-ist as well please?

There's bigger things to worry about out here in the sticks. Like evil chickens

Ok, countless people have explained the numerous reasons why "folding" is not that simple.

No-one is saying wheelchair users in north Wales shouldn't be able to use the bus. I am saying there is no reason why there can't be facilities for both allowing the wheelchair space to become dedicated rather than multi-use in law and practice.

Two wheelchair spaces don't fit on our buses because they aren't wide enough to fit two wheelchair spaces, the pram space is not as wide.

Are evil chickens bigger than cows? That's scary!

Just hang Boris on his zip wire at every rural stop.
It'll terrify the cows.

Some chickens are more evil than others...

Giant Evil Chicken

Yes, that I what I am saying Mary, that is how it is currently, I am saying access for wheelchairs would be improved if pram and wheel chair spaces were required enabling them to make the wheelchair space into a dedicated wheelchair space.

It is reasonable to allow someone with a pram or mobility probs to use the wheelchair space and then move if it becomes needed provided there is a pram space/other mobility seats which allows people with prams and mobility probs to still actually use the bus.

You seem to be over looking the fact that some pushchair users may be genuinely unable to fold their pram tho. I don't like the massive assumption that this must mean they are self entitled arseholes

No I am not Mary. I am saying quite the opposite, that the wheelchair space should be dedicated and not multi-use but in order to achieve that without shitting on other people who are also vulnerable or making a plan that just doesnt work in practice there needs to be accommodation offered for people using prams:

You are not understanding my post. I'm sure you would like me to be saying prams iz best nah, but that's not what I am saying...

How is that relevant. Women who are entitled are protected just like disabled people who are entitled (wheelchair users or not) are protected yes, the protection is for simply being disadvantaged not because people might morally deserve it.

I honestly can't work out what that means.

Fairy, if they tell us they can't, and why not, then that's fine. It's the ones who swear, shout and try to lift move my wheelchair to fit their pram in, I and most take issue with.

I don't think people are assuming that all people who can't fold are entitled arseholes, they are simply pointing out that it doesn't matter. You still don't get priority over the space.

It is wrong to make no provisions for prams and then kick them off as well, that's all. You can reasonably enforce a dedicated wheelchair space as long as there is actually a space for prams.

So you are effectively saying that wheelchairs users should only get to use the wheelchair space if there is sufficient provision for lazy parents. Whereas everyone else is saying bollocks to that.

I think the one thing that continues to annoy me on threads such as these (other than anyone saying they wouldn't give up a space for a wheelchair) is the vitriol directed at women using prams that don't easily fold. I am not remotely selfish for buying a pram that doesn't fold easily, as whenever required to do so I will simply get off the bus. So not inconveniencing any wheelchair users. So why can't we lay to rest the negative comments? It's not the pram that's the problem, it's the pram-pusher.

Offered, you aren't making yourself any clearer/ less offensive so give in and let go, just some friendly advice.