Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

I don't assume a person who refuses to old a pushchair is an arsehole.

I do however believe that if I found myself in a room with 100 people who refused to fold their push chair, about 95% of them would be arseholes.

I could do a graph if it would help.

In an ideal world, Offred, a designated space for wheelchair users and a designated space for pushchair users would be great, of course it would. But given that the bus companies are very unlikely to do such a thing, priority must be given to those who need the space most.

It's all very well saying fixed penalties should be issued for those using a dedicated wheelchair space, but how is that enforceable?

Yes, having to fold your buggy/get off the bus might be a PITA, but at worst it's hard work and inconvenience. Being disabled is a whole other ball game.

My local bus company seem to have it right. A wheelchair space and a buggy space on the right and two more spaces on the left that can be used for seating or buggy space when the seats are folded up. The sign on the wheelchair side window clearly states priority must be given to passengers in wheelchairs and buggies may have to be folded to accommodate them. Surely this is common sense?

I think irony died on this thread several pages ago when you claimed to be speaking up for the disabled.

I also fail to see why the solution to the abuse of facilities for disabled people is pandering further to the very people that abuse the facility in the first place.

No one on this thread has denied that there are circumstances in which a buggy cannot be folded, eg injury, non stable conditions and so on, but for the majority the case is idleness, entitlement or lack of foresight when purchasing. So stop singing that tune, it's getting very tedious

In the same way fixed penalties are given for putting feet on train seats. The driver could issue a ticket.

I don't think it is an "ideal world" I think it is really achievable.

I'm off to make some food and bang my head against a brick wall. It'll be nice when I stop!

Mine was not sarky, I was genuinely helping you to see the contradiction but if you want to get petty, that's up to you

Yes they have no little, plenty of times it has been repeated over and over, parents who get buses are lazy, everyone should get a folding pushchair, they should just walk, over and over again by numerous posters, if you read.

I didn't claim to be speaking up for the disabled, I said I wasn't disablist pag...

Really no little? Ha ok, whatever, at least I can admit I was being sarcy...

YY Glitter

For the hard of understanding, the wheelchair space IS a dedicated space. It's just that some people feel that they're entitled to put their prams there, and the law isn't enforced.

FFS

It was pretty obvious there was no contradiction btw since a wheelchair space can perfectly well be a small part of a bus and also bigger than a pram space.

Oh fgs woman! Nobody has said those things. You however have made a multitude of ignorant, and IMHO disablist comments.

Sarky's not the word I'm thinking of tbh.

No people have read into my comments that they are disablist. what about what i have said is disablist if that is your claim?

Someone just right then said folding is just a PITA but I'm glad you have acknowledged that it isn't always possible which no-one on the thread has till now and seems to be the basis of calling pram users lazy and entitled....

One disablist thing I have said please or an apology...

You may not have meant a contradiction, but that's how it read to me, that wheelchair spaces are all well and good, provided they're not too big.

I have a strong suspicion that you don't think you are disablist, and that 'some of your best friends are disabled'

I fail to see how the quote "yes the wheelchair space which doesn't take up much room on the bus should only be for wheelchairs" could be made into only small wheelchairs are allowed... Jeez...

Not one thing. Pages and pages and pages of disablist ranting. How your family size trumps wheelchair users.

I have never said my family size trumps wheelchair users, not ever at all. I said people with prams need to use buses...

One thing please.

Your suggestion that disabled people do not pay for PT as I said up thread

One disablist thing I have said please or an apology...

You said that wheelchair spaces should be enforced so long as provision has been made for pushchairs. IE if there is no provision for pushchairs it is ok to deny disabled people their rights as laid down by law. IE denying equality to people with disabilities. IE what you said is disabilst.

No panda I said it wasn't reasonable or achievable to enforce the wheelchair multi-use space if there is not alternative place for prams.