Interesting - Bus Company on wheelchair/Pram spaces..

[Bathsheba]

Yes -that old chestnut.

The Chair of the NCT has posted a letter on her facebook page (and has asked for it to be shared so I doubt any problems with doing this) from a bus company's solicitor - the bus company are being accused of being disabalist in not insisting that parents fold down prams/Get off etc. I've posted the info from the bus company below and will happily post a link to this thread on the facebook page as they have been asked to garner as many opinions as possible.

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I write further to our recent telephone conversation. As I explained, we are solicitors acting for Arriva North East Limited, which runs bus services in the North East. Arriva is currently involved in a court case brought by a number of disabled passengers. They are alleging that Arriva has discriminated against them because of its policy on use of the wheelchair space by parents with buggies. The court case is very important as it is likely to decide how wheelchair spaces in buses and trains across the UK can be used in future. Arriva?s policy is that drivers will ask parents with buggies to fold them down if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus, but if parents cannot fold down the buggy or refuse to do so, they will not be forced to. Arriva believes that its policy is in line with the government guidelines and aims to minimise conflicts between passengers by striking a balance between the competing rights of parents with young children and disabled people to use the wheelchair space. The people bringing the claim have proposed various changes to this policy, to ensure that wheelchair users have absolute priority over the space ? the proposed changes are listed below. Arriva is obviously concerned about the impact of these proposed changes on parents of young children and their ability to use public transport. Arriva has been given until 28 January 2013 to gather evidence on the potential impacts of these changes. We would be very interested in hearing your members? views and experiences on the practical impact of the proposed changes on parents of young children. I would be very grateful if your members could respond directly to me with their views by 18 January 2013.

Proposed changes:-

1. Prohibit prams on board
2. Get drivers to ask passengers to fold down their buggies before they board the bus.
3. Get drivers to warn passengers each time they board the bus that they will have to fold their buggies and/or vacate the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board.
4. Offer passengers with buggies onwards tickets if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.
5. Refuse access to buggies, prams and pushchairs which cannot be folded.
6. Refuse to continue the bus journey until the passenger with the buggy moves from the wheelchair space.
7. Insist the passenger with the buggy leaves the bus if a wheelchair user wishes to board and buggy cannot be folded down.

Kind regards,
Adam
Adam Hedley
Solicitor
(contact details follow but I thought best to remove them - Bathsheba)

Every post. That's more than one thing.

Some disabled people don't pay for buses and have bus passes, all people with disabilities get bus passes here. All adults pay fares.

A quote please not what you have read into what you think I'm saying.

here here Glitter! Offered, if you don't understand how your comment about size sounds, then I can only conclude that you are as ignorant as you have made yourself appear in this thread.

No panda I said it wasn't reasonable or achievable to enforce the wheelchair multi-use space if there is not alternative place for prams

Which is exactly what the bus companies have been saying and is the reason they are being sued for disability discrimination.

No, it isn't ok, in reality bus drivers don't enforce it is my point panda which is why this case has happened. Unless there is a place for prams and the wheelchair space is dedicated then drivers will continue to not enforce it which is what is happening now, this case will not change that.

You didn't limit your comment to your area, and judging by a lot of the replies to your posts, I am not the only one who has read into what t[they] think [you're] saying. Your response about not paying, shows you don't need a quote, and are well aware of how you sound[ed].

Really they all get a free bus pass? I thibk you will find that many of thrm pay for it and quite frankly it doesnt fucking matter if they have paid or nit, they are entitled to use the space, pushchairs are not and pushchairs arent charged for either on buses so its fine for them to use the soace for free but not for someone wuth a disability to have a free bus pass?!!

Offred you speak such rubbish.

If the company decides drivers must enforce it, it will be enforced. At the moment they don't which is why this whole case seems to be happening.

It will be a cold day in hell when I apologize to someone who holds the views you have aired here, Madam.

No, your point was not that they don't enforce it. You said they should enforce so long as provision is made for prams. Or are you too back pedalling now. Do you think that as of now bus drivers should ensure the wheelchair space is available to wheelchair users? Or do you think they should ensure it only after provision is made for prams (like you said earlier)?

Exactly 5, perhaps mine and many of my other working, tax paying friends' passes have got lost in the post!

How does it sound as though I am saying the wheelchair space should be small FFS? Have you actually read the post?

If I said fare payers should have priority fair enough that would be disablist, I didn't, I said in reality a profit making company will prioritise fare payers unless it is made to do otherwise. This I what has been happening. This plan won't make anything change. Even if they ban prams in practice I think they would simply be sued for that.

No panda my point was that they don't enforce it, because they can't enforce it in practice... That has been my point all along, sorry to disappoint...

"I'm not disablist, apologise"
"Disabled people get free bus passes"

face palm

Not being aware that outside my area disability doesn't qualify for a bus pass is not disablist, it is ignorant if you are being pedantic...

Lothian banned non-folding prams for 4 years.

Sued for banning prams? Seriously? Using what legislation?

I think lots of people have acknowledged folding a buggy's not always possible Offred.

And what you're saying is idealistic. How on earth would it be practical for the driver to issue a fixed penalty?

Hopefully there will be people reading this thread who now have a better understanding of the challenges and struggles disabled people face every single day of their lives. Being thought of as a nuisance, being moaned, sworn, spat on because someone has to fold up a bloody buggy/get off a bus. It's not such a big deal, is it, to just be a bit more considerate and compassionate. But maybe I'm the one being idealistic.

They can enforce it and some companies do. This action is being brought against a company which WON'T enforce it.

If drivers can issue tickets and enforce making people move they can issue fixed penalties can't they...

Yes Maryz about prams, that quite is in answer to your question about what do prams do if the pram space is full...

Oh silly me. Thought disablism was ignorance. It's obviously having an empathetic and encyclopaedic knowledge of disability issues.

Bullishly banging on about your own agenda, even when it contravenes the law in the matter, even when every other poster on the thread is explaining to you patiently or otherwise that you are wrong....

Well there's a word for that.

Offred do you mean to come across as ignorant, unpleasant and stupid?