Re bikini waxing for 9year olds?

[Preposteroushypothesis]

Trying to keep this brief so here we go!
I was having a leg and bikini wax the other day and my waxing lady told me that she gives girls as young as 9 full leg and bikini waxes!! My first reaction was to be completely appalled and saddened at how young girls are being forced to grow up so fast these days etc, however, she made an interesting point which has led me to doubt this reaction and wonder whether it is ok in certain circumstances.

Firstly, she said that some girls are swimmers and are obviously very self conscious of having hair poking out and getting teased, I thought this was very understandable if the girl in question has developed particularly early.

Secondly, she said it is apparently very big with girls who go to boarding school (which is a lot of girls in the area where the wax lady works). Apparently, her clients start as soon as they get there first hairs there and get the whole lot off, not just 'neatened up', because 'no one wants to be the first'.

Thirdly, she said that although she does have some pushy mothers who are obviously driving this most of the mothers say they resisted but the girls will just shave if they don't take them to be waxed and then end up making a complete mess of themselves.

I think my conclusions are that:
I wouldn't take my daughter to be waxed completely just so she's not the first, I would encourage her to accept the changes in her body as natural and nothing to be ashamed of.
I would however, consider letting my daughter have a basic bikini wax to stop excess hair poking out the sides if it was causing her great embarrassment.
I also think I would encourage my daughter to choose to be waxed at the time she starts to consider shaving her legs to save her from a lifetime of hardship with the evils of shaving...but I can't decide if I have an age limit for this...

So I'm putting it to the mumsnet jury: AIBU to think that a bikini wax on a 9 year old could be acceptable in certain circumstances?

My view is that there will always be a few people who have excessive hair who would benefit from hair removal. This is because they do not fit into the social 'norm'. Whether this is wrong or right is actually up to the individual and waxing would be a small price to pay to stop ignorant fools bullying, looking, commenting.

The problem is that the social norm amongst younger people is not the norm at all.

Male and females are massively influenced by internet access to porn where no hair is the norm.

People say they do it because they prefer it and they may well believe it is their choice but ultimately they are influenced by porn.

It's obvious really, razors have been around for years as has waxing but complete removal of all pubes is a fairly recent phenomenon in this country which happens to coincide with a hairless porn industry.

Anyone who thinks anything different is really kidding themselves.

I have no interest in what adults do to their own bodies but I do take issue with the pressure pubescent children have to immediately eradicate something that is well within the normal range but they see as something that is not normal.

Op yabu. I think I would have been mortified to bare all to a stranger to wax at nine years old! It sends a terrible message to young girls, that womanhood is something to be ashamed of....

Agree Sockmuppet about the influence of easily available porn on hair removal (and all sorts of "normal" sexual behaviour for that matter which, prior to the internet, would not have been in the sexual knowledge/repertoire of most teenagers). However, I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating that ALL pubic hair should be removed from pubescent girls - not at all - I find that thought repugnant as it suggests either that pubic hair is nasty/dirty and/or that children should have to conform to a pornographic ideal. Horrid. However, I maintain it is kinder to be open, supportive and helpful towards young girls - especially those who start puberty very early - whose pubic hair may extend beyond standard, modestly cut swimwear. Surely no-one wants to expose their daughter to ridicule, bullying and embarrassment (or mortification) regardless of how "normal" any amount of hair should be considered. As things stand, it would seem that females whose pubic hair extends onto their thighs - or stomachs for that matter - are in the minority, and you could therefore argue that they are outside the "normal" range where hair is neatly concealed by a "normal" pair of pants .....

..... but who knows ? This is such a sensitive subject that many women shy away from speaking about. I have no idea if my mother, for example, suffered the way I do because she'd never discuss such a thing. And obviously I have no idea how many of the women you see on a beach or at the pool are blessed with neat pubes or simply depilate for all they're worth! Certainly however, if you look at sex ed books girls are never told that it's possible you could end up with dark, thick, coarse hair halfway down your thighs. It's no wonder that with this veil of secrecy and educational illustrations never going there, that girls who do have a lot of hair often feel "ashamed" or "abnormal". None of this is right and I find the whole issue very upsetting but I'd never let my daughter go through all the worry and fear (of being seen) that I did because my mum brushed the topic under the carpet and never gave me any advice, reassurance or help. If my daughter ends up with excessive hair, then I'll do all I can to help her feel good about herself - even if that does mean removal up to the knicker line - and so she can fully participate in sports, days on the beach etc without feeling she has to hide herself in uncomfortable clothing or decline opportunities altogether.

But that's the thing is my partner and i do NOT find it sexier. And i do feel better when my under bits are waxed. This is because in my personal situation (like a lot of others) I am excessively hairy. So much so I doubt people believe it till they've seen it. I am way hairier than DP or most men i have met. And because i also suffer from extremely heavy periods, i do prefer to be waxed - particularly in the summer. I wish i was like all of my friends and every other female i know and could just shave to the knee. I really do. l do not like the porn/prebuscent look so i don't tamper with the 'front', but the underneath make a massive difference. Sorry for TMI!

I don't think there is anyone on this thread saying 'brilliant! give 9yo's a vajazzle while you're there'. It is horrible and i would feel very sad if my 9yo had the hair experiences i have had. But there seems to be an argument between those discussing the broader 'concepts' of waxing and it's political messages and those who have experienced excessive hair at a young age of . I think it is unfair of people who are not hairy to over ride the feelings of those who are (and suffer because of it) because it conforms to their agenda.

And agree with the bleaching comments, i spent 10 years bleaching my arms weekly. I used to sit with the stuff burning my skin for 30 mins and when i washed it off my arms would be red raw and the hair would be a brass/gold colour, which showed up just as much. There is no way i would put it on more sensitive areas.

I hope that makes sense, i'm a bit sleep deprived today!

Catsmother

You talk a lot of sense but the OP did say the girls were having it all waxed off.

"Apparently, her clients start as soon as they get there first hairs there and get the whole lot off, not just 'neatened up', because 'no one wants to be the first'."

Unfortunately unless you've personally experienced this - or, I guess, are a beautician, a doctor or a nurse - most women can't quite imagine just how hairy some other women can be. Nor can they imagine how distressing it can feel - or how bloody time consuming it can be trying to get rid. As I said before it's just not talked about is it - very few women would want to readily admit to this - I'm only doing so now as I'm on an anonymous forum and will talk to my daughter if necessary about the feelings etc., but I can't say it's ever been a subject I've raised on a meal out with friends. Like you Spuddy, I've been hairier than most boyfriends and that makes you feel rotten and unfemminine regardless of how pretty you are or the fact you have a nice figure.

Yes SockM, that is appalling - and would be horribly painful for very young girls, no need at all.

But since then - unless I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick - there does seem to be a school of thought in this thread which says that removing any hair from young girls is wrong. Which I think is terrible if it means your child is exposed to potential ridicule during swimming etc. Whatever the politics of female body hair until there's a massive change in attitudes, I think it totally wrong to expect young girls to brave it out when most adult women don't have the confidence to do the same. I wish that wasn't the case and we could do as we pleased without judgement or comment but it is so us "hairies" have to deal with it best we can.

I do understand what you are saying catsmother and spuddy, and I think if my Dds were excessively hairy to the extent you describe, I may feel differently about early hair removal to some degree

But I don't get the impression, from the OP that is what we are talking about. Surely if the waxer lady (do they have a proper name?) had been waxing young girls that were extremely hairy, then that would have been her anecdote....something along the lines of having to deal with that at such a young age. It sounds more like she is talking about a fashion/trend amongst young girls, or an embarrassment at puberty...IMO

Actually takataka that is what I am talking about. The girls, especially the 9 year old girls who were swimmers were going for a wax in the first instance because they were embarrassed about having pubic hair that was not covered by their swimsuits. This obviously puts them in the rare but undeniably real category of girls who not only develop very early but have excessive hair growth, like some of the posters on here. Even the girls who were older and 'didn't want to be the first' it sounded to me like they were embarrassed rather than being fashionable but I could be wrong. There are really 2 sides to this, first being embarrassed of excessive hair growth, in which case myself and other posters have said that they would allow their daughters to be waxed up to the panty line so that their child did not need to be embarrassed in swimwear etc. the other side is that these girls were being waxed 'Hollywood' style, which not one poster has agreed with and we all agree that is ridiculous!

I personally did not start this thread to be a discussion of whether young girls waxing as a fashion trend is acceptable as I think it is obvious it is not. I was trying to ask whether people would consider it for those girls who are very early developers and are unlucky enough to be excessively hairy. The fight seems to be down to those who can empathise with girls who fit in that vein and those who think waxing is wrong under all circumstances. The 'Hollywood'/pornstar wax I guess I probably should have left out of the story as it seems to have riled everyone up when that wasn't supposed to be the main point of the thread...

OP I hope the comments and discussions on here have answered your questions and queries about children and bikini waxes.

Odds are though OP that most of those girls won't have excessive hair growth though. And just need a less high cut costume. Or are using it as an excuse to follow the trend

Whilst my first thought is absolutely no way I am speaking from the point if view of someone who has never waxed and whose 11 year old dd is one of the last to develop in her class

There are some early developers in her school. They don't have a choice Asti what swimming costumes they wear. They are school speedo ones.

Dd also dances. I am told by other mums that some girls have a problem with hair showing through leotards and ballet rights. Dd already talks about shaving her legs and I can see why for barefoot dances.

Someone I know whose child is at the royal ballet school says the girls learn how to desk with body hair early on. I could well understand a child getting waxed at the start of term.

Waxing is totally harmless grooming activity that anyone should do if they feel like it. Hairy bare legs and pubic hair escaping from swimming costumes are excrutiating for young girls.

i dont see why girls need to wear tiny bikinis anyway,if you look you can buy cool rash vests and shorts for girls,my daughters got them and so have her brothers (boden/ripcurls etc do them if anyone wants to know)

rip curl i mean,no pun intended.

Amber we're not talking about tiny bikinis, just standard speedo one-piece swimsuits. DD doesn't want shorts. She likes the knee-length suits but they're expensive.

If we're talking about removing hair that shows round the edges of a leotard or swim suit then of course they should do it. Particularly if they are very young. But that's not what this thread is about, is it?

Fannies are hairy and so are the women who own them. I wish we could all just live with that. Not so long ago it was totally absurd to even shave your armpits.

How about we change the swimsuits rather than the body inside them.

If I went swimming in a suit that concealed everything I wanted it to I'd have to wear one of those Victorian style "onesies" down to my ankles (and get myself wheeled out to sea in a bathing machine for good measure !!)

I like that cats maybe we should all go back to wearing an allover swimsuit

Though I suppose, if ones pubes do go down ones legs, maybe one could just shave the legs?

I dunno, it's a slippery slope... so to speak!

I remember at primary school (30 years ago) for the end of year gymnastics display in my final year (so 11/12 years old) several of us had pubes, and they stuck through the material of our leotards. We had chosen (the girls not the staff) that we wouldn't wear our knickers for the display, as they kind of bunched up or hung out the sides and didn't look very professional. We were not aware of any way to deal with the pubes, but as the parents were far enough away not to be able to see, I don't think we were too worried about it.

About a year later, so in my first year at big school, I had pubes that stuck out the side of my big gym knickers (that was our gym uniform along with a sports shirt). Not knowing of a way to hide this I began to hate gym, although nobody openly ridiculed me, I was very self conscious about it. So I went from being a promising gymnast to stopping as soon as possible. Having a practically hairless mother I don't think she even thought about what it was like for me at school, and I certainly didn't mention it.

I had my first wax at 14, at the beginning of the summer holidays, and it was so painful it took 7 years for me to go back again. But shaving doesn't really work for me as my legs are so scratchy after 24 hours I cant put my legs together.

My dds are 7 & 8, and often comment on my body hair, and know that I find waxing painful, but they think it feels (and looks) nicer when I'm less hairy. I treat it as a practicality and certainly don't link it to looking sexy.

My 8 year old is showing signs of early puberty, so we have talked a bit about body development and what might happen next. In all honesty, when we get to this issue, which we may or may not, I will definitely say that she can try waxing if she wants. If she's like me, she may not want to do that.

For those of you who are blessed with naturally sparse small muffs, you have no idea of how lucky you are and what a financial saving it is. Any and all of the hairies on this thread would swop with you in a flash, and I can guarantee that if you spent a summer in our skins, hair and all, you might well revise your opinions.

There's something wrong with a society that finds normal body hair so unacceptable.