To have discplined my SILs children as she was doing nothing...??

[Shinyballsandtinsel]

Two days ago, DH, me, our three DCs (9, 11, 13), granny, SIL and her two DCs went out for a meal in the evening (early about 7.00pm) for one of granny's landmark birthdays. We went to a chain pub, which later on turns into a club with bouncers on the door, no children after 9pm etc. It is in a town well known for stag/hen nights, however this time of year it is mostly Christmas parties.

It was very very busy, behind our table there were two long tables of about twenty people each, which looked like work do's. The bar was also very busy - there were steps leading down to the restaurant bit from the bar.

Our food arrived quite quickly. When we had finished our meal, we were waiting for the staff to bring plates for the birthday cake. My SILs older DC started running around and around the table very fast (aged 5yrs). SIL sat there doing nothing. Then the her younger DC started doing it also (aged 3yrs), whilst they were running the 3 year old ran into the legs of a fully laden waitress who nearly dropped all her plates. SIL still just sat there. They were running within close proximity of the people sitting on the end of the work do tables.

SIL was completely oblivious to it all, so I grabbed the 3yr old on his next run around, and plonked him down on a chair beside me, and said in quite a firm voice "sit down now, those people are having their dinner and Granny is about to have her cake". He immediately burst into tears, SIL glared at me, grabbed him on her lap. The 5 year old continued to run around the table, and then ran up the steps on her own into the bar area, my DH went to get her back, when she arrived back he put her onto her chair, she immediatley slid off under the table and started the running around thing again.

They have behaved like this before, I often make excuses for not going out when they are going to be there, as the children's behaviour, or rather the mother's complete oblivion to their behaviour actually winds me up. In the past she also literally just sits there whilst her children run around other people's tables, talk to strangers eating, ask if they can try some of their food (I kid you not!) and generally act as if they are in a playground. SIL has said in the past she thinks it cheers people up to see her kids smiley faces, and they are so freespirited and cute nobody could get annoyed with them..... Hence why I usually make my excuses, but as it was granny's landmark birthday couldn't get out of it.

Anyway, the saga continues - we all take it in turns to do Christmas dinner, this year is SILs turn to do it at her house. Today DH has received a telephone call to say that we are no longer invited for christmas day, as SIL is upset that I took it upon myself discipline her child, and it will ruin their Christmas if I do so again.

I am of the opinion that I am quite pleased not to have to go around there, and am happy to break away from the big family Christmas and start having Christmases at home with just our family, but Granny has now rung up very upset, and asked DH if I can apologise and make an excuse, i.e. say I was stressed at work or something.

I am not happy to do this, as I am not sorry. AIBU to not aplogise even though it will probably upset MIL?

Oh, and yes to whoever said a child crying doesn't mean they are necessarily scared out of their wits or anything.
DD cries if she doesn't get what she wants. This is despite often being told 'no' and crying not getting her anywhere in the past - she still seems to think that a few tears might just make me change my mind.
She's three. It's what they do - I want it and me wanting it is a perfect reason for me to have it and now you've said no you are being Mean and I'm going to sob about it because it's all so frustrating.
I doubt the child was traumatised - just annoyed because he couldn't run around and get in everyone's way and possibly cause an accident (of course, he doesn't know that this is the potential outcome. That's for an adult to know and deal with. He just knows he likes to run and was stopped - Meany!)

I wouldn't be apologising unless it was to do it in a way that apologised for the way SIL felt rather than your action, OP. (I'm sorry you felt bad about it. As we do things a bit differently, maybe we need some space from each other for a bit, hey?! )

Sorry just read that her DH wasn't there.

"It strikes me that I rarely take mine to restaurants in big part because I cannot relax. Mine behave ok, but I am all tensed up the whole time keeping tabs on their behaviour, so I have little appetite. I'd just as soon not be there. Wait until I get home so I can actually enjoy eating something."

lljkk I'm the same but I'm divorced, my kids are only 17 months apart and almost act as a tag team at 3 & 5. If it's not one it's the other. I would be emotionally exhausted by the time I got home. I suppose if I eat out more, I would worry less and they would get used to it all? I haven't tried the restaurant thing since Easter. That's how much I try to avoid it. I cannot bare the cats bum mouths as I spend all my time trying to make sure they remain seated, try everything on their plate, do not squabble, aren't too noisy etc...

Maybe I'm highly strung? I can eat out with just one of them though. It is really quite nice when it's only one of them I suspect as they get bigger all will be easier

SIL throws a strop if op arranges to see granny without her!

Now we have to arrange a time suitable to try and stop DC behaving appallingly? I don't believe from what I've read that time would make a joy of difference.

I've been in exactly that situation, babybythesea: grabbed a toddler just as he was going to shoot into the oncoming traffic. He didn't fall or hurt himself in any way, I just held onto him. His mother came up and glared at me.

I suppose she was of the TisTheSeason school and thought I was being disgusting laying my unhallowed hands on somebody else's child.

Did you miss the fact sil had invited herself?

Or that it was mils, the birthday girls, choice?

Or that it's her dh's sister, nothing to do with her brother.

In fact, did you read the thread at all?

lechatnoir Read the op again, it was SIL who invited herself and the kids to something that OP and her DH were taking his mother too.

SIL wanted the kids out that late sheesh.

Also, if you fancy a really nice meal out with someone, you do it to suit your and their tastes, right?
So OP and her MIL had organised a nice meal out together with just the OP's family, SIL invites herself along. If I'd already picked where I wanted to go, particularly according to MIL's wishes when it was to celebrate her birthday, I wouldn't change it all - I'd be saying "This is where it is and this is the time - are you sure that's suitable for your kids???" And if I was adding myself in as an afterthought to someone else's planned meal out I wouldn't expect them to change time and venue to suit me - I'd expect not to go if it wasn't appropriate for my children.
There are times when it's good to organise everything to suit everyone, and times when you have to make a decision that this time or place isn't right for you/your family. SIL effectively gate-crashed (from what i gather), so she cannot also expect everyone to then rearrange everything around her as well. That's just as entitled as expecting others to enjoy tripping over her kids.

YANBU. SIL should be grateful to you, and embarrassed. Children should not be allowed to run around in a restaurant, for their own safety and to allow other people to eat in peace.

Re: christmas, you could say that you're really upset to be misunderstood and treated this way, and yes, maybe its better to have a break from the intensity of a big family christmas this year. Just a thought.

Good luck. i'm sorry you're having to put up with this.

As an aside to those talking about it, I hate taking my two to restaurants (nearly 3 and 6 weeks). I spend the entire time worrying about keeping DS quiet, sitting down and happy and BFing DD while eating with one hand and trying not to drop anything on her. DH and I carry on taking them out because we feel that it's important for them to learn how to behave in restaurants. We have had a few times when we've left half our main course and skipped pudding to get out if there as fast as possible but as long as we choose our time carefully to make sure that DS isn't overtired/hungry/full of beans it's generally ok. Today he sat in his high chair for 3 hours over a big family meal and it was fine.

Ok apologies I stand corrected & in that case no YANBU

I agree with what you did in principle but I think I would have tried to be a bit more gentle about it. "Kids, come and sit down, the cake's coming!" in very jolly tone or something like that. There is no way I wold be apologising.

However, I think the posters calling a three year old child a brat and a twerp are being a bit harsh.

YANBU

In fact if I didn't know better I would think your SIL was my DSIS as her DCs are just the same and it is a total nightmare going anywhere with them. To the extent that I now refuse to have them staying or come to my house.

I have a couple of friends who are much more lenient than me in terms of what their kids get away with in restaurants but I would never try to discipline them like that, even if they were being dangerous, as I know it would cause a big rift in our friendship. SIL is a bit different though I guess and harder to avoid situations like yours.

LiegeAndLief: I have a couple of friends who are much more lenient than me in terms of what their kids get away with in restaurants but I would never try to discipline them like that, even if they were being dangerous, as I know it would cause a big rift in our friendship

YANBU

We went out for my Nan's birthday many moons ago. My DC were sitting quietly, playing on Gameboys I think. My sister's DC were running round and round and were encouraging my brother's DD to join in! I gave my mum a look as if to say do something! She just mouthed leave it, you know what she's like! My sister is a stroppy cow, and would stop people seeing her DC if they spoke up about them!

My dad got up to go to the bar, so I followed him. I said to him, are you going to do something about those DC? If you were here having a meal, you wouldn't like it! He refused and they just carried on running riot! I was so embarrassed! My sister is still so lax about rules. Her DC more or less do what they like.

If I were you, there is no way I would apologise. I would see it as a relief that I didn't have to spend Christmas with them any more, TBH!

I think YANBU, I discipline my SIL's children, and she would do that with mine. I would expect an adult to intervene if my child's behaviour were putting them on danger, or annoying other people. And, I'm fairly relaxed about children making a noise etc, but there is a limit, and when their safety is in danger then I'd expect any adult (even a stranger) to step in.

I would call your SIL and explain that you are sorry she is upset, but you feel you had to intervene to prevent an accident so you can't apologise for that. And agree that next time you will go somewhere at a more toddler friendly time. Then I'd have a nice Christmas at home!

Ideally SIL would have had a huge bag of toys and activities to ocupy them or at least got out of her chair to supervise their wanderings but she wouldn't.

I disagree, ideally SIL wouldn't insert herself into situations that she hasn't been invited to.

I think that keeping them safe from danger is more important than a risking a rift in a friendship!

I really don't think op is being unreasonable.

if there were 4 adults and 3 older kids there i dont understand how they couldnt of been kept entertained.When we go out the kids are made to feel involved and they dont need to run off because they enjoy sitting with us and the older kids help out with the younger ones too.I think it is down to the parents obviously but as you have all said,it takes a village to raise a child.....

I wouldn't apologise. I would tell your MIL that you agree with your SIL that the day will be too tense as your parenting styles differ too much. Point out that the three year old crashed into a waitress and an accident could easily have happened. Explain that young children running around a restaurant isn't really acceptable, as it upsets other diners and is basically dangerous. So you don't feel able to apologise for stopping it!
I would send you SIL a friendly text saying you agree that your parenting stlyes are so different that you agree it's probably best that you don't have Christmas together, but that you have no hard feelings and hope she has a lovely day!!!

Sorry, but YABU. I think everyone's horror at the kids' horrid behaviour is blinding them to your own behaviour.

You despise their behaviour (rightly so) and you snapped. The mature solution was to say to SIL, away from Granny's party, that you find her children so horrible in restaurants that you simply cannot go out with her and the kids anymore. Fair enough. But don't do it by proxy through the stunned 3-year-old, and don't do it at poor Granny's party.

You should apologise - mainly to Granny. Admit that your find SIL's children totally out of control and it winds you up too much to be around them. If you're going to pick a fight over this, then do it directly with the person at fault: SIL.

If you'd said you'd snapped at HER in the restaurant, and given her an earful over them running around like wild animals, endangering themselves and others, and ruining several parties... then I'd understand.

theres some pretty strong wording going on onthis thread,they wererunning around and being little ferals by the sound of it,yes not appropriate for the setting but words like despise and detest are a bit ott,i have seen much worse day to day from children i see about.