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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have discplined my SILs children as she was doing nothing...??

965 replies

Shinyballsandtinsel · 15/12/2012 13:11

Two days ago, DH, me, our three DCs (9, 11, 13), granny, SIL and her two DCs went out for a meal in the evening (early about 7.00pm) for one of granny's landmark birthdays. We went to a chain pub, which later on turns into a club with bouncers on the door, no children after 9pm etc. It is in a town well known for stag/hen nights, however this time of year it is mostly Christmas parties.

It was very very busy, behind our table there were two long tables of about twenty people each, which looked like work do's. The bar was also very busy - there were steps leading down to the restaurant bit from the bar.

Our food arrived quite quickly. When we had finished our meal, we were waiting for the staff to bring plates for the birthday cake. My SILs older DC started running around and around the table very fast (aged 5yrs). SIL sat there doing nothing. Then the her younger DC started doing it also (aged 3yrs), whilst they were running the 3 year old ran into the legs of a fully laden waitress who nearly dropped all her plates. SIL still just sat there. They were running within close proximity of the people sitting on the end of the work do tables.

SIL was completely oblivious to it all, so I grabbed the 3yr old on his next run around, and plonked him down on a chair beside me, and said in quite a firm voice "sit down now, those people are having their dinner and Granny is about to have her cake". He immediately burst into tears, SIL glared at me, grabbed him on her lap. The 5 year old continued to run around the table, and then ran up the steps on her own into the bar area, my DH went to get her back, when she arrived back he put her onto her chair, she immediatley slid off under the table and started the running around thing again.

They have behaved like this before, I often make excuses for not going out when they are going to be there, as the children's behaviour, or rather the mother's complete oblivion to their behaviour actually winds me up. In the past she also literally just sits there whilst her children run around other people's tables, talk to strangers eating, ask if they can try some of their food (I kid you not!) and generally act as if they are in a playground. SIL has said in the past she thinks it cheers people up to see her kids smiley faces, and they are so freespirited and cute nobody could get annoyed with them..... Hence why I usually make my excuses, but as it was granny's landmark birthday couldn't get out of it.

Anyway, the saga continues - we all take it in turns to do Christmas dinner, this year is SILs turn to do it at her house. Today DH has received a telephone call to say that we are no longer invited for christmas day, as SIL is upset that I took it upon myself discipline her child, and it will ruin their Christmas if I do so again.

I am of the opinion that I am quite pleased not to have to go around there, and am happy to break away from the big family Christmas and start having Christmases at home with just our family, but Granny has now rung up very upset, and asked DH if I can apologise and make an excuse, i.e. say I was stressed at work or something.

I am not happy to do this, as I am not sorry. AIBU to not aplogise even though it will probably upset MIL?

OP posts:
DontmindifIdo · 18/12/2012 21:56

Mary - I don't think it matters if the SIL admits she's wrong, but if she realises she can't pull this shit with her DB and SIL (OP) anymore, she might start acting alittle better round them.

People can learn that some people have to be treated differently, even if they don't like it.

Often you will find that some people who are being treated badly by someone will complain "but htey are lovely with X" without thinking it's because X has made it perfectly clear they won't put up with it.

SpecialAgentKat · 19/12/2012 02:42

Weird how OldPeculier only has one post...

Glittertwins · 19/12/2012 06:15

Just caught up...
A young child can easily turn a simple telling off into much more. Last night DS was told off by DH for hurting me. DS had twisted my necklace very nightly around my neck and pulled it. It was an accident as I don't normally mind him fiddling with it. But he was calmly told he had hurt me and my throat had a lovely red mark on it. The reaction was amazingly OTT. It sounded like a reaction to being flayed alive. I can assure you this was not the case as DH was in the same room as me when DS kicked it off. It was a simple reaction to being told off and him not being allowed to continue.

CabbageLeaves · 19/12/2012 07:30

Very true specialagent. . So do we think she is SIL or MIL or BIL? I'm voting BIL based on the name and the vitriol to the bloke more than OP.

I don't think you can easily change an adults behaviour. However you can change your own reaction to it. OP shouldn't have to be humble around SiL just to protect everyone else's feelings. OP's DH has had enough and is behaving as he would like to. SiL has a choice about dealing with that. Works two ways.

Personally life is too short for me to spend pandering to a bullying family member. I'd honestly view the relationship as better being conducted from a distance.

exoticfruits · 19/12/2012 07:49

Oldpeculiar isn't SIL - she has a post about her teenage DS. However it is the sort of post SIL would write instead of keeping her DCs under control.
I am generally a very diplomatic 'don't rock the boat' sort of person but I think you have to make a stand on some occasions - and this is one of them. 'I'm sorry you thought I was disciplining your DC..............' is fudging it. The majority of the thread are pleased that she was disciplining the DC and I expect that the other customers and staff were very pleased! More people ought to step in when they don't like behaviour.

exoticfruits · 19/12/2012 07:51

Selfish people get away with all sorts of dreadful behaviour because people keep the peace and let them.

Shinyballsandtinsel · 19/12/2012 08:34

Update: silence is still golden, from SIL. DH has spoken to mother in law and it wasn't mentioned the elephant in the room!

I think she'll be in touch with me or DH for sure, as we still haven't arranged present drop off.

OP posts:
SugaricePlumFairy · 19/12/2012 08:46

Is she stubborn?, perhaps she's waiting to see who blinks first regarding the exchange of gifts.

FestiveWench · 19/12/2012 08:55

At his point I would ask for the thread to be deleted tbh.
The fall out when she finds it will be horrific.

takataka · 19/12/2012 08:56

Why would you exchange presents with someone you had fallen out with? Confused

If I had recently told someonw to fuck off, I wouldn't be expecting presents from them

Strange messages to be giving your kids; you find cousins and SiLs behaviour so unbearable that you can't be civil or spend time together, and she has been rude about your kids....but you still exchange gifts?? Really?

Phineyj · 19/12/2012 09:05

takataka sounds like business as usual in a lot of families!

LettyAshton that's spooky -- you seem to have my DS!

EggNogRules · 19/12/2012 09:21

How strange NOT to exchange presents for the children. Confused

Churlish and immature to bring them into this disagreement. Families disagree.

takataka · 19/12/2012 09:39

eggnog Christmas isn't about the actual physical present though is it? Not in our house least ways. It's the love behind it And its about spending time with people you love
If anyone had been rude about my kids, I wouldn't accept presents from them to ky kids. Similarly, if someone told me to fuck off, they would not be bringing presents to my house

It's worse than the empty apology that OP was not prepared to give

Tanith · 19/12/2012 10:01

Having finally caught up and read the situation in the OP and the SIL's ridiculous texts, I don't think this is anything to do with the kids so far as your SIL is concerned.

I think it's a territory problem she has. Twice now, you have invited her mother out and she has immediately muscled in. It wouldn't have mattered a jot what her kids were doing, she sees it as a chance to chase you back to the boundary she has defined for you. If they'd been choking, she'd be furious that you banged them on the back. You are the sister-IN-LAW.

For that reason, I would let your DH take over and don't get involved yourself. He seems more than capable so far Smile
She needs to realise that he will back you to the hilt.

tiggytape · 19/12/2012 10:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EggNogRules · 19/12/2012 10:57

takataka I love Christmas and agree wholeheartedly with your festive sentiments. For my 6 yo, the presents are what he is most excited about; as far as he is concerned they ALL come from Father Christmas.

I think exchanging presents in this situation passes on positive messages, such as:
This is a conflict that we (eventually) want to resolve;
The DC will not suffer because of a disagreement between adults.

IMO not exchanging/accepting presents is an act of aggression and makes it clear hostilities are to continue. Sil must do as she sees fit. The only thing the OP and her family can control, is how they reacts. Sil is totally wrong to call Shiney's DC names as a way of defending her actions (or lack of them).

My own family history is that my GM and DM did not get on. This meant that she either didn't get my siblings presents or gave us much smaller/less thoughful presents than she gave our cousins. As an adult, I understand how passive agressive, childish and mean spirited this was; as a child I got the message she loved my cousins better.

SpecialAgentKat · 19/12/2012 11:33

It's not the DC fault the aunt is a manipulative cunt the adults had a misunderstanding so I don't get your logic takata.

Should the DC be told "Sorry, no presents this year, Auntie and Uncle Shiny think you're like robots with no go."

Confused

Well I love my DC more than to use them in a disagreement to score points OR to tell them and turn them against family for life over something that will most likely be 'over' by next Christmas.

Slugslasher · 19/12/2012 11:35

I read this thread with intense interest due to the fact I have experienced almost identical circumstances regarding 'entitled spoilt indulged powerful' sil being pandered to by her adoring dominated parents where everybody else walked on egg shells to keep things cordial. To cut a long story short my 'head to head' with her resulted in my being ostracised by my pil and her, with her brother and his wife sitting uneasily on the fence (secretly on my side but too frightened to say). I later found out they all had been drip fed poison by 'barmy sil'. She wielded immense power over the entire family. I decided when my flash point occurred to not feed the fire as I knew whatever I did to appease the situation, I had burned my bridges with my inlaws and I would have been crucified by the family.

My DH steered his ship carefully through the very choppy waters (with my blessing although I was very hurt to be excluded, after more than 30 years without a cross word). He managed to maintain his relationship with his frail ageing parents without me and sil in the mix (to avoid them being in the position of being disloyal (!) to their dd (his sister) as they depend on her more and more as they get older). Three years down the line, from that, powerful sil then had another huge bust up with her brother and his wife where sil physically attacked her (flashpoint on Christmas Eve).

Following that particular explosive incident, powerful sil is now in the position of being completely isolated by her two brothers their wives (me) and her 4 nephews. She is under the impression she has done no wrong. Her parents are dominated by her completely, she now rules them with a rod of iron and plays the martyre card with aplomb.

Pil were in an awful position stuck in the middle of all this. I held an olive branch out to them ( because of their frailty and my love of my husband) and they grabbed it with two hands. We now have a situation where each family in the mix, separately socialises with each other so ageing parents are not seen to be leaving powerful daughter out. Powerful daughter has never backed down and to this day drips poison with further extended family (aunts/ uncles cousins etc) who sensibly do not contribute to the fester.

I take no pleasure in any of this, it has been frankly awful but I too had to make a stand in the family and hold my ground with my sil when I could not bear her behaviour any longer. Husband wanted me to back down 'to keep the peace' initially but respected my stance. It is the only thing that has come between us in our 40 years together.

takataka · 19/12/2012 12:04

My kids would neither notice or care if they did or didn't get presents from people who were not there at the time Confused

Eggnog says her dc think all presents are from Santa anyhow

Its not points scoring or using kids as weapons. It's having integrity; more valuable than any present

Seems a bit superficial, fake and grabby to be exchanging presents under these circumstances

takataka · 19/12/2012 12:08

How does not getting a present= turning the kids against SiL for life??!

You don't need to give a blow bybblow account of this ridiculous set of events, do you

EggNogRules · 19/12/2012 12:55

Younger children may think all presents come from Santa. OP's children are 9, 11, 13 and probably understand that the presents come from their Aunt and Uncle.

My own ego is less important than involving DC in this argument. Not accepting presents for the DC would be petty imho. I don't think it would send anyone a message of integrity. It doesn't have to be an act of contrition, making a point or about backing down from a moral high ground. I love picking things for the children in my family and I would like them to have them regardless of any squabbles.

The OP has changed her behaviour and this has lead to conflict. It does not have to mean that it escalates to the point that they never see each other again.

SpecialAgentKat · 19/12/2012 12:59

Ahh if I told my DC they'd been called names (when they're older, granted) yeah, that would stick for life.

Doesn't everyone have childhood insults that have stuck for life? Confused Having them be from Auntie Shiny would just wound more. Sad

Not sensible to tell the children IMO.

Even if you OP just said 'I sat DN in his seat because he was in danger at Granny's birthday and Auntie got mad and didn't want us for Christmas any more.'
you think they'd understand that and not be at all hurt Takataka? Really? Hmm

This is hardly the sort of argument that will last forever, so why cause children unnecessary hurt feelings? What would be the point?

SIL is a cunt for saying that about her DN's twice in the first place. I hope this little tantrum of hers teaches her a good bloody lesson! Involving children, I mean really? How low can you get? Angry

chocolateistheenemy · 19/12/2012 13:00

Well thank you OP and MN in general for taking up my last hour, which should have consisted of housework, cooking, sorting out clothes for a sale and a spot of sewing. I don't feel in the slightest bit guilty [fembarrassed]
This has all the elements of a great film!
I have taken notes, as one who has very spiteful and self-obsessed ILs...

chocolateistheenemy · 19/12/2012 13:01

Oops i meant Xmas Blush !!!

EggNogRules · 19/12/2012 13:06

Taka, I think that refusing to exchange gifts, you would be using the DC/presents as weapons of your integrity.

I think the exchange of presents should have nothing to do with a disagreement between adults.