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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have discplined my SILs children as she was doing nothing...??

965 replies

Shinyballsandtinsel · 15/12/2012 13:11

Two days ago, DH, me, our three DCs (9, 11, 13), granny, SIL and her two DCs went out for a meal in the evening (early about 7.00pm) for one of granny's landmark birthdays. We went to a chain pub, which later on turns into a club with bouncers on the door, no children after 9pm etc. It is in a town well known for stag/hen nights, however this time of year it is mostly Christmas parties.

It was very very busy, behind our table there were two long tables of about twenty people each, which looked like work do's. The bar was also very busy - there were steps leading down to the restaurant bit from the bar.

Our food arrived quite quickly. When we had finished our meal, we were waiting for the staff to bring plates for the birthday cake. My SILs older DC started running around and around the table very fast (aged 5yrs). SIL sat there doing nothing. Then the her younger DC started doing it also (aged 3yrs), whilst they were running the 3 year old ran into the legs of a fully laden waitress who nearly dropped all her plates. SIL still just sat there. They were running within close proximity of the people sitting on the end of the work do tables.

SIL was completely oblivious to it all, so I grabbed the 3yr old on his next run around, and plonked him down on a chair beside me, and said in quite a firm voice "sit down now, those people are having their dinner and Granny is about to have her cake". He immediately burst into tears, SIL glared at me, grabbed him on her lap. The 5 year old continued to run around the table, and then ran up the steps on her own into the bar area, my DH went to get her back, when she arrived back he put her onto her chair, she immediatley slid off under the table and started the running around thing again.

They have behaved like this before, I often make excuses for not going out when they are going to be there, as the children's behaviour, or rather the mother's complete oblivion to their behaviour actually winds me up. In the past she also literally just sits there whilst her children run around other people's tables, talk to strangers eating, ask if they can try some of their food (I kid you not!) and generally act as if they are in a playground. SIL has said in the past she thinks it cheers people up to see her kids smiley faces, and they are so freespirited and cute nobody could get annoyed with them..... Hence why I usually make my excuses, but as it was granny's landmark birthday couldn't get out of it.

Anyway, the saga continues - we all take it in turns to do Christmas dinner, this year is SILs turn to do it at her house. Today DH has received a telephone call to say that we are no longer invited for christmas day, as SIL is upset that I took it upon myself discipline her child, and it will ruin their Christmas if I do so again.

I am of the opinion that I am quite pleased not to have to go around there, and am happy to break away from the big family Christmas and start having Christmases at home with just our family, but Granny has now rung up very upset, and asked DH if I can apologise and make an excuse, i.e. say I was stressed at work or something.

I am not happy to do this, as I am not sorry. AIBU to not aplogise even though it will probably upset MIL?

OP posts:
AndABigBirdInaPearTree · 18/12/2012 17:03

Cat puss, one of mine didn't do it at nursery at that age either unless the food was pretty swiftly forthcoming. Once snack was done he was up and off. He also has sensory issues and found (finds) a lot of noise difficult.

So if it is simply down to good parenting then apparently I was a miracle parent for #1 but morphed into a really dreadful one when #2 was born.

fedupwithdeployment · 18/12/2012 17:10

Well done Shiney. Having read the entire post....

Anyone read the thread about appalling DCs not being invited to a wedding? That will be SILs DCs in a few years time.

CatPussRoastingOnAnOpenFire · 18/12/2012 17:11

There's a difference between sensory issues and just being a brat. Would you allow your son to run amok in a busy restaurant?

BlueberryHill · 18/12/2012 17:15

'Lively little ones' as opposed to robots...

Shiney, you've been found out Xmas Shock

In all seriousness, some children find it easier than others, I have three one who is 5 and twins at 2. DH and I manage to keep them occupied, sat at the table and quiet, although it does get a bit close at times and we have to eat up quickly, pay and get out of there. It is hard work to do this but it is starting to pay off. Some children will be harder than others, I would at least expect the parent to try to occupy them and teach them how to behave.

However, it is dangerous to let children run around a restaurant into waitresses or into the bar. I don't demonise the children, it isn't their fault but if the parent cannot be arsed to get off their arse and parent, I would and do judge their parenting.

BluelightsAndSirens · 18/12/2012 17:19

There is a massive difference between sitting still or sitting on granny's knee or what not to tearing around the table bumping into waitresses.

And the op knows her niece and nephew and hasn't mentioned anything about sensory issue or the like, the DC are described as free spirited.

I predict this thread is now going to turn.

CatPussRoastingOnAnOpenFire · 18/12/2012 17:19

I have been a waitress for years. Waiting staff all judge the parents!!

thewashfairy · 18/12/2012 17:23

Nah,Sil won't be back.She didn't expect to be found out so quick! Not as clever as she thought obviously.......

LettyAshton · 18/12/2012 17:24

My family was ruled by my sister and her unreasonable behaviour. We all had to tiptoe round her and fall in with whatever she wanted for fear of setting her off. I am absolutely determined that this should never happen with my dcs and any precious self-centred behaviour is absolutely not tolerated.

It always sticks in my mind the occasion when my mum said to me, "Letty, if sis is nasty to you, don't say anything and upset her, will you?" Confused

ShipwreckedUnderTheTree · 18/12/2012 17:48

I love this thread!!

natation · 18/12/2012 18:06

Sorry but my husband has spent over 30 years lying to his parents about himself then 16 years with me, he's refused to be honest in front of his parents. When I got to see the horrid horrid emails recently his dad had written about me to the secret email account I discovered, I was more than heartbroken I had been deceived by husband who allowed his dad to talk about me in emails in such a way and never once defended me, then there was the disgraceful behaviour by my children's grandfather in saying what he said. No way would I apologize for something in the family to simply keep in-laws happy, I've had to put up with crap in-laws for 16 years, now knowing what they really really think about me for definite but feeling I was disliked, now finally I knew what I thought was right, they no longer see their grandchildren and never will again until they learn to respect me and their grandchildren. I'm finally happy, I no longer have my children disappointed when they grandparents fail to turn up and visit them. There are no more lies. Honesty in a family, even if it means broken relations, is far better than relations based on lies.

DontmindifIdo · 18/12/2012 18:23

Letty, do you still go along with it or has your sister been put in her place as an adult?

coffeeinbed · 18/12/2012 18:24

Ifyoulike very very true.

OP, well done for standing your ground.
Cannot bear children running around where food and drinks are served.

AndABigBirdInaPearTree · 18/12/2012 18:45

Catpuss you said

"There is absolutely no reason that any child can't sit still." and
"If you cant keep your child still, thats your fault. Learn to parent better."

I couldn't make my son sit still. So by your reasoning I am at fault and a bad parent (but to only one of my kids)

I didn't let my son run amok, but I also couldn't stop him behaving 'badly'. So I removed him from the situation as much as possible while he learned.

CatPussRoastingOnAnOpenFire · 18/12/2012 18:55

I should amend that to "there is generally no reason". You remove your son from dangerous situations. You are in no way like SIL!

MaryChalloner · 18/12/2012 19:30

see I agree with you in theory whereyouleftit, but I really have never seen an example of a grown up successfully being taught that they are in the wrong, and actually changing their character. I really don't think that there are many people who at the age of 46 will realise that they are in the wrong and decide to change.

I think it's fine to make a stand if you are at the end of your tether with a person and are prepared to take the likely consequences - that the person will never speak to you again (rather than them accepting they are in the wrong).

and it's not that I am conciliatory because I have made such a stand with someone in my family. But I have accepted that this will mean a (probably) lifelong cool down in relations and a knock on effect for the wider family. I really don't think there are many adults who will realise that they are in the wrong and completely capitulate.

minesapackofminstrels · 18/12/2012 19:39

So glad Mr Shiney didn't cave in to her and apologise. Only a family member could put it like that though. As others have said she's probably busy how to get her come out on top again and I bet it involves Boxing Day.

I just have to add that having children that don't sit still and run about does make someone a bad parent BUT just sitting there and letting the children run about in an unsuitable place especially a dangerous place is most definitely bad parenting. No one should be judged for having active kids as some are just like that but its how you deal with their behaviour that determines whether you are a good or bad parent.

HoratiaLovesBabyJesus · 18/12/2012 19:53

I agree with MaryChalloner's last post. It's all very well saying one must stick up for oneself and stand up to wrong characters, but it doesn't necessarily improve matters. It is a big risk.

MooncupGoddess · 18/12/2012 20:04

I agree that it is pretty rare for adults to admit they've been wrong, but actually I think they do often respond to clear and polite boundaries... especially when (as in this case) it is very much in their interest to do so. I think OP and her husband have dealt with this really well.

HoratiaLovesBabyJesus · 18/12/2012 20:11

But if MIL will always pander to SIL, and she always always will if she has done so for 46 years, then it isn't in SIL's interests to get better. If nearly everyone in her life panders to her, why should she give a single shiny shit what Shiny and MrShiny think of her?

MrsFlibble · 18/12/2012 20:15

Horatia OP said that her and DH are the only ones who will look after SIL DC's, so probably when SIL runs out of options, she'll try to charm her way back in, so it would be in SIL's interests to atleast fake being sorry.

MooncupGoddess · 18/12/2012 20:18

Quite so, MrsFlibble - and the SIL has already backed down about her initial Christmas Day disinvite (though the OP has sensibly decided to stay at home anyway).

BlueberryHill · 18/12/2012 20:31

I agree, people rarely change their character, but they do change their behaviour, especially if you draw clear boundaries and they have an incentive to change e.g. childcare, maintaining family ties.

In this instance, if MIL continues to pander to SIL, then SIL behaviour to her mother will not change, but SIL behaviour towards to OP and her DH may change if they do not pander to her.

HoratiaLovesBabyJesus · 18/12/2012 20:45

True, true. That was like 500 posts ago, sorry!

SugaricePlumFairy · 18/12/2012 21:13

SiL will probably never willingly change and due to her I can't hear you, they're spirited attitude towards her childrens behaviour means that in a few years we may have a few thousand AIBU's relating to how badly they are misunderstood by us Plebs!!

PrincessScrumpy · 18/12/2012 21:27

I would go for the diplomatic statement "I am sorry that you felt I was disciplining your child, I was simply telling them to sit down as I was worried they would get hurt and thought you hadn't noticed dc bumping into the waitress with all the plates so was just trying to support you... I know what it's like when you have young children, it's nice to have other adults watching your child's safety."

It's kind of a sitting on the fence thing - you are completely right and my dc would not behave like this and if they did I would be happy for others to help me to get them to behave, but this may save a massive argument and Granny will be happy.

What I'd really want to say would be along the lines of "well you don't seem to care if you children are well behaved so someone needs to think about their welfare!" - depends if you want to speak to her again.